Ed Zachary wrote:Lance wins. The USADA can do what they want but the public will love Lance even more. I'd like to see how much his business spikes after this.
Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Interested to hear what UCI and USA Cycling say.
"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today - finished with this nonsense.
I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA's charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA's motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.
If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA's process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and - once and for all - put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?
From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA's improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA's own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers' expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.
The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It's an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It's just not right.
USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.
Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet."
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
That's a nice "fuck you very much"
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Can these assholes really strip Armstrong of his Tour de France titles? Can they keep him out of Triathelons?
If yes and I was Lance I'd use some of that "Fuck You" money to have a few key instigators have trajic accidents or plain ol' dissappeared (to a vat of acid or a hogfarm.).
If they did not catch him in the act than some " He said She said" should hold as much weight as Gene's opinion around here.
The man is a fucking Hero!
If yes and I was Lance I'd use some of that "Fuck You" money to have a few key instigators have trajic accidents or plain ol' dissappeared (to a vat of acid or a hogfarm.).
If they did not catch him in the act than some " He said She said" should hold as much weight as Gene's opinion around here.
The man is a fucking Hero!
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
The Frogs are probably pleased but The International Cycling Union and USA Cycling may disagree.DARTH wrote:Can these assholes really strip Armstrong of his Tour de France titles? Can they keep him out of Triathelons?
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
That response by Lance is incredibly well written.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
a clever smokescreen, perhaps.
the judge gave usada the go-ahead. usada has physical evidence and reliable witnesses. lance knows this. the truth will emerge: lance cheated,
just because he, like marion jones, didn't fail a test, doesn't mean he is clean. just because it has taken a long time to nail him, doesn't mean he is clean. just because you admire his single-nutted fortitude doesn't make him clean.
the only question is: do you care?
the judge gave usada the go-ahead. usada has physical evidence and reliable witnesses. lance knows this. the truth will emerge: lance cheated,
just because he, like marion jones, didn't fail a test, doesn't mean he is clean. just because it has taken a long time to nail him, doesn't mean he is clean. just because you admire his single-nutted fortitude doesn't make him clean.
the only question is: do you care?
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
About your presumption of Lance's guilt? No.dead man walking wrote:a clever smokescreen, perhaps.
the judge gave usada the go-ahead. usada has physical evidence and reliable witnesses. lance knows this. the truth will emerge: lance cheated,
just because he, like marion jones, didn't fail a test, doesn't mean he is clean. just because it has taken a long time to nail him, doesn't mean he is clean. just because you admire his single-nutted fortitude doesn't make him clean.
the only question is: do you care?
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Anonymous witnesses and people who plea bargained against a lifetime ban? LA was always going to be considered guilty - thinking about this, his move and statement are not a bad decision.
http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling/sto ... normal-dayOn Thursday, the foundation had 45 people donating through the website. On Friday, hours after the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said it had enough information to strip Armstrong of his seven Tour de France titles, 411 people felt compelled to donate.
Every sponsor of Armstrong or the Foundation chose to publicly stand by them Friday. Nike, Anheuser-Busch, Oakley, Johnson Health Tech, Sporting KC, FRS, Honey Stinger and American Century Investments all issued statements of support.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
The Onion's opinion of doing the Tour de France clean:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nondop ... ance,2268/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nondop ... ance,2268/
Cycling has always been one of the most cutting-edge doping sports out there. Lance should win an award for his ability to dominate while ducking positive tests. At the very least, he could make millions as a team "consultant" from this point forward.PARIS—A small but enthusiastic crowd of several dozen was on hand at the Tour de France's finish line on the Avenue des Champs-Élysées Tuesday to applaud the efforts of the 28 cyclists who completed the grueling 20-stage, 2,208.3-mile race without the aid of performance-enhancing drugs.
Enlarge ImageGreat Britain's Bradley Wiggins finished the final 56km time trial in a respectable and drug-free 4 hours and 38 minutes.
Finland's Piet Kvistik, a domestique with the Crédit Mondial team, was this year's highest-finishing non-doping rider (142nd overall). Kvistik claimed the maillot propre, the blue jersey worn by the highest-placed "clean" rider, on the ninth stage of the race when the six riders who had previously worn it tested positive for EPO, elevated levels of testosterone, and blood-packing.
"This is a very, very proud day for me," said the 115-pound Kvistik, who lost 45% of his body mass during the event, toppled from his saddle moments after finishing, and had to be administered oxygen, fed intravenously, and injected with adrenaline by attending medical personnel. "They say it is physically impossible to ride all of the Tour without drugs, but we prove them wrong this day."
"What day is it, anyway?" asked Kvistik, his eyes rolling wildly in his head. "I can no longer tell."
Kvistik's overall time for the Tour was 571 hours, 22 minutes, and 33 seconds, beating by over an hour the previous record for a non-enhanced rider, set by Albrect Påart during 1923's infamous ether-and-morphine-shortened race. Kvistik finished a mere 480 hours behind Alberto Contador, the overall winner, making 2007's margin between doping and non-doping riders the closest in history.
"It became most difficult for us on the 7th stage, which was almost 200 kilometers and the first stage through the mountains," Kvistik said while accepting the non-doping victor's 100-franc check from his stretcher. "Not only did the excruciating pain and weakness in my legs make it difficult to walk my bike on the steeper stretches, it was mentally very hard to know that half the other clean riders were dead or dying. Also, the other 141 riders finished the Tour in Paris that morning, which made it all that much harder."
"It's rather a shame that the Tour's 'clean' riders, or 'lanternes naturelles' as the fans call them, receive so little attention, for their monumental achievement," said cycling commentator Phil Liggett, reporting on the non-doping riders' finish for Versus-2, the little-sister network to Versus, who carried the main Tour de France coverage. "It's nearly impossible to compete in the full Tour while shot full of human growth hormone, erythropoietin, testosterone, glucocorticosteroids, synthetic testosterone, anabolic steroids, horse testosterone, amphetamines, and one's own pre-packed oxygen-rich red blood cells. To do it on water and bananas is almost heroic, no matter what one's time is."
While Kvistik's achievement is being celebrated by cycling insiders, critics of the Tour de France maintain that not enough is being done to combat the use of performance-enhancing substances in cycling's premier event.
"Nonsense—pure nonsense," said Tour general director Christian Prudhomme, who was vacationing in Switzerland as Kvistik crossed the finish line. "We have done everything we could imagine, both in terms of prize money and other incentives, to promote riders who compete without pharmaceutical aid. But we simply do not have the resources, nor the viewers the interest, to televise the entire two months it takes for a normal, unadulterated human to circumnavigate an entire nation on a bicycle."
Kvistik remains in critical condition at the Hôpital Neuilly-sur-Seine, where he was placed in a medically induced coma to aid his recovery from exhaustion, malnutrition, and loss of bone density. Attending physicians say he is not expected to return to cycling.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
they've got him. he knows it.Terry B. wrote:Anonymous witnesses and people who plea bargained against a lifetime ban? LA was always going to be considered guilty - thinking about this, his move and statement are not a bad decision.
all he can do is create distractions, so people follow his lead and demean his former teammates who told the truth (as you have) and question the "unfair" process, while being diverted from the fact that he cheated and has been a self-righteous liar for a decade.
lance is in shit not because of anonymous sources and out-of-control agencies, but because of his own behavior. he won't own it. and all his lawyers' clever efforts are designed to prevent him from having to.
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.
Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Lance cheated... period...
he also is known for fighting shit to the end, so why did he drop the case?
Its easier for him to use the excuse he did rather than have all the evidence come out in court about his usage.
I think the people at his charity had a lot to do with it, Lance's charity helped a lot of lives and it could potentially harm them if the evidence in court was deemed to be correct.
So, he did what he did and is looked at by most as a hero.
Maybe the USADA are a bunch of assholes, but it is what it is.
he also is known for fighting shit to the end, so why did he drop the case?
Its easier for him to use the excuse he did rather than have all the evidence come out in court about his usage.
I think the people at his charity had a lot to do with it, Lance's charity helped a lot of lives and it could potentially harm them if the evidence in court was deemed to be correct.
So, he did what he did and is looked at by most as a hero.
Maybe the USADA are a bunch of assholes, but it is what it is.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Like handing out speedin tickets at the Indy 500.
Fuck the fans, the cyclists, the USADA. The whole witch hunt against performance drugs is a fucking joke. We all know every single cyclist at the Tour is using, but we are all go to pretend that only Lance is guilty.
I find the whole mass hysteria carnival as a fucking joke. 99.9999999% bitches carrying on and winning about PED couldn't do what (insert PED taking athlete) if they took a truck load of PED every single day.
On the flip, side I find he whole idol worship of celebrity and sports figures as a seriously fucked up feature of our modern life.
This is all about people getting their rocks off on destroying a person they undeseravably built up in the first place
Fuck the fans, the cyclists, the USADA. The whole witch hunt against performance drugs is a fucking joke. We all know every single cyclist at the Tour is using, but we are all go to pretend that only Lance is guilty.
I find the whole mass hysteria carnival as a fucking joke. 99.9999999% bitches carrying on and winning about PED couldn't do what (insert PED taking athlete) if they took a truck load of PED every single day.
On the flip, side I find he whole idol worship of celebrity and sports figures as a seriously fucked up feature of our modern life.
This is all about people getting their rocks off on destroying a person they undeseravably built up in the first place
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
UCI is the only org that can officially strip lance of his tour titles. usada and wada can ban him from competing in cycling, tris and marathons and such, but until they present UCI with incontrovertible evidence (which they haven't because they likely posess only weak evidence) UCI won't budge. There's a turf war here and usada are behaving like cunts. Banning Lance puts the screws to some of his livelihood,but "stripping" him of his titles is just a pr ploy and posturing for the press.DARTH wrote:Can these assholes really strip Armstrong of his Tour de France titles? Can they keep him out of Triathelons?
If yes and I was Lance I'd use some of that "Fuck You" money to have a few key instigators have trajic accidents or plain ol' dissappeared (to a vat of acid or a hogfarm.).
If they did not catch him in the act than some " He said She said" should hold as much weight as Gene's opinion around here.
The man is a fucking Hero!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/o ... ong25.html
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
I think it will come down to a couple things. One, the language in the agreement between UCI and WADA/USADA. UCI outsources individual control of testing and results. I think they will protest the "findings" but UCI is in self preservation mode here as well. Many people have called for a totally new org to govern cycling. I think UCI is relying on LA keeping his mouth shut so that they can ignore USADA and quietly let the issue die over the next few years. If USADA,the witnesses, or UCI allows this thing to fester, pro cycling itself is in danger.
Once again, with only single piece on the board, Lance proves to be the best tactician.
This wont happen,but I'd love to see LA come back and set the hour record in a scrupulously timed and managed yet totally unsanctioned event.
Once again, with only single piece on the board, Lance proves to be the best tactician.
This wont happen,but I'd love to see LA come back and set the hour record in a scrupulously timed and managed yet totally unsanctioned event.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
BobW wrote:Good, if somewhat speculative, article here:
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... ictim.html
Great write up.
It's a shame that though some of LA's legal arguments were very sound, his TOTALWAR brief to the Texas Judge was tone deaf and overreaching and he got rightfully smacked down. Now many of the core issues of USADA/WADA acting beyond their authority (they clearly are) may not get challenged for a while.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill
Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
The USADA fucks our athletes.... ultimately fuck the rules, win at all costs.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
basically everyone thinks lance cheated. but he never failed a test, so somehow that makes it wrong to go after him. nonsense.
lance has becomes a stylish and unrepentant whiner about process and jurisdiction. usada is conducting a "witch hunt," he says. laugh at all the bird brains who parrot lance's pr terminology.
witnesses were given "sweetheart deals." but that's irrelevant to the issue of whether they know the truth and are telling it. frkctl says the evidence is likely weak. what if usada has gotten lance's posse to sing?
doesn't this end up at the court of arbitration for sports if uci doesn't go along with usada? i assume this shit is going to play out with for a while, with all kinds of people getting all kinds of righteous about all kinds of principles.
fortunately gorby is speaking for the children. jay is grunting the musclehead view. etc.
life's a zoo and the monkeys are smearing their shit around the cage. grab your popcorn.
lance has becomes a stylish and unrepentant whiner about process and jurisdiction. usada is conducting a "witch hunt," he says. laugh at all the bird brains who parrot lance's pr terminology.
witnesses were given "sweetheart deals." but that's irrelevant to the issue of whether they know the truth and are telling it. frkctl says the evidence is likely weak. what if usada has gotten lance's posse to sing?
doesn't this end up at the court of arbitration for sports if uci doesn't go along with usada? i assume this shit is going to play out with for a while, with all kinds of people getting all kinds of righteous about all kinds of principles.
fortunately gorby is speaking for the children. jay is grunting the musclehead view. etc.
life's a zoo and the monkeys are smearing their shit around the cage. grab your popcorn.
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
DMW, I suggest:


"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
DMW is it lonely up there on your high horse?
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
if USADA had the real goods they wouldn't have to bring in so called eyewitnesses to shore up their case. They apparently have no actual samples, only test data that they are now reinterpreting. If they had Lance dead to rights they would have presented the evidence to Le Tour officials and UCI. Something really smells about all this.
I don't think anyone thinks Lance is innocent, but there is a right way and a wrong way to decide that. USADA is very close to malfeasance here.
I don't think anyone thinks Lance is innocent, but there is a right way and a wrong way to decide that. USADA is very close to malfeasance here.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
Hasn't this been the sentiment here since the start? Oh thank gawd for the voices of reason like DMW and Gorby.FRKCTL wrote:. . . I don't think anyone thinks Lance is innocent, but there is a right way and a wrong way to decide that. USADA is very close to malfeasance here.
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Re: Will they ever leave Lance Armstrong alone?
FRKCTL wrote:if USADA had the real goods they wouldn't have to bring in so called eyewitnesses to shore up their case. They apparently have no actual samples, only test data that they are now reinterpreting. If they had Lance dead to rights they would have presented the evidence to Le Tour officials and UCI. Something really smells about all this.
I don't think anyone thinks Lance is innocent, but there is a right way and a wrong way to decide that. USADA is very close to malfeasance here.
USADA would be stupid to bring this to either UCI or LeTour. Both have a vested interest in business as usual. I think every tasty bit they have flows from DOJ case that was pretty clearly dropped for political rather than substantive reasons.
"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that." JS Mill