AG

Topics without replies are pruned every 365 days. Not moderated.

Moderator: Dux

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: AG

Post by Turdacious »

Gorbachev wrote:If that were true, it would be the first occupation ever where mistakes weren't made, people didn't get lazy or vengeful and would be quite miraculous.

The problem with occupying a foreign country is that the menfolk Don't like it. Particularly if from a different religion and particularly if there's a stron feeling of injustice (think wounded and killed children, women, old people, checkpoints, searches etc.) Soon, anybody can become a "terrorist". They're occupied. They don't like it. At one end of the spectrum, they're blowing people up in suicide attacks. At another, they're not giving information, sheltering those on the run, passing on intel, lending cars - the soft support required by every terrorist organisation. The rate, frequency, accuracy and devastation wreaked in US forces and British forces indicates to me that there is widespread support amongst many Afghans for armed resistance.
There is widespread support for resistance, but against who? I claim no expertise in Afghan tribal and/or regional dynamics-- but a lot of the grudges are likely not primarily against the Brits and the US.
Gorbachev wrote:You can blame imams, tribalism and pop music for this. It doesn't matter. The facts strongly suggest that it is so. "Bad guys" are being made. Created. Programmed. Conditioned. Trained. Used. GTFO in as orderly a manner as possible, learn some fucking humility an lessons about taking over other countries an try to sanction/support/steer if you must, in as moral a fashion as possible. The genie is out of the bottle. This is no time to stand around admiring the precision or rigour of supposed intel and strikes. It has cascades into something bigger than is capable of being controlled.
The flip side is that not taking aggressive action has negative consequences too. There are no easy answers.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: AG

Post by Turdacious »

milosz wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:
Terry B. wrote:Actually, the effort we go through to verify each bad guy is overdone, and collateral damage is why we have attorneys embedded everywhere.

If you get invited to Gitmo, struck, or engaged, you are a certifiable bad guy.
This is an enormous sack of horseshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan
in Pakistan alone, drone strikes have killed 175 children
It isn't that drone strikes are 100% surgical, it's that they are more surgical than traditional strikes. Unfortunately there are almost always extra casualties when human shields are used.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

User avatar

tough old man
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Hell

Re: AG

Post by tough old man »

WASHINGTON (AP) — It was another week at war in Afghanistan, another string of American casualties, and another collective shrug by a nation weary of a faraway conflict whose hallmark is its grinding inconclusiveness.

After nearly 11 years, many by now have grown numb to the sting of losing soldiers like Pfc. Shane W. Cantu of Corunna, Mich. He died of shrapnel wounds in the remoteness of eastern Afghanistan, not far from the getaway route that Osama bin Laden took when U.S. forces invaded after Sept. 11, 2001, and began America's longest war.

Cantu was 10 back then.

Nearly every day the Pentagon posts another formulaic death notice, each one brief and unadorned, revealing the barest of facts - name, age and military unit - but no words that might capture the meaning of the loss.

Cantu, who joined the Italy-based 173rd Airborne Brigade on Sept. 11 last year and went to Afghanistan last month, was among five U.S. deaths announced this past week, as the Democrats and Republicans wrapped up back-to-back presidential nominating conventions.

American troops are still dying in Afghanistan at a pace that doesn't often register beyond their hometowns. So far this year, it's 31 a month on average, or one per day. National attention is drawn, briefly, to grim and arbitrary milestones such as the 1,000th and 2,000th war deaths. But days, weeks and months pass with little focus by the general public or its political leaders on the individuals behind the statistics.

Each week at war has a certain sameness for those not fighting it, yet every week brings distinct pain and sorrow to the families who learn that their son or daughter, brother or sister, father or mother was killed or wounded.

Cantu died Aug. 28, but the Pentagon did not publicly release his name until Wednesday. He was memorialized by his paratrooper "sky soldier" comrades in Italy on Thursday and honored in his hometown of Corunna, where the high school football coach, Mike Sullivan, was quoted in local news reports as saying the energetic and athletic Cantu had been "the toughest kid I've ever coached — ever known."

He would have turned 21 next month.

His roommate in Afghanistan, Pfc. Cameron Richards, 23, remembers Cantu as a larger-than-life figure, a guy with an infectious smile who took pride in whipping up spaghetti, tacos and other dinners on his portable skillet. It was a knack he attributed to having grown up with five sisters with whom he shared family meal duties.

"He was the type of person you wanted to be around every day," Richards said in a teleephone interview Friday from the brigade's headquarters in Italy, where he returned after being wounded by shrapnel from a hand grenade two weeks before Cantu was killed.

"When he was in the room you knew he was in the room. He'd be the loudest one laughing," he added. "He impacted everybody."

As the war drags on, it remains a faraway puzzle for many Americans. Max Boot, a military historian and defense analyst at the Council on Foreign Relations, has called Afghanistan the "Who Cares?" war. "Few, it seems, do, except for service personnel and their families," he wrote recently. "It is almost as if the war isn't happening at all."

One measure of how far the war has receded into the background in America is the fact that it was not even mentioned by Mitt Romney in his speech last week accepting the Republican presidential nomination. President Barack Obama has pledged to end the main U.S. combat role in Afghanistan by the end of 2014, but current plans call for some thousands of U.S. troops to remain long after that to train Afghans and hunt terrorists.

The war remains at the forefront, naturally, for members of the military such as Marine Lt. Gen. John Kelly, whose son, 2nd Lt. Robert M. Kelly, was killed by a roadside bomb in southern Afghanistan in November 2010.

"America as a whole today is certainly not at war, not as a country, not as a people," Kelly said in a speech Aug. 28 at the American Legion's national convention. Kelly is Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's senior military assistant.

"Only a tiny fraction of American families fear all day and every day a knock at the door that will shatter their lives," Kelly said.


That knock came this past week for more families, including that of Jeremie S. Border, a 28-year-old Army Special Forces staff sergeant from Mesquite, Texas. His alma mater, McMurry University, said he graduated in 2006 with degrees in sociology and communications. He played four seasons for the school's football team, whose players will wear a helmet decal bearing his uniform number, 28, for the remainder of this season.

The Pentagon said Tuesday that he was killed by small arms fire last Saturday, along with Army Staff Sgt. Jonathan P. Schmidt, 28, of Petersburg, Va., a graduate of Thomas Dale High School outside Richmond. Schmidt was an explosive ordnance disposal expert assigned to a unit based at Fort Bragg, N.C. The Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer reported that he joined the Army in 2003 and is survived by his wife and one son.

Marine Lance Cpl. Alec R. Terwiske, 21, of Dubois, Ind., was killed in combat last Monday in Helmand province. He was a reservist with a tank battalion based at Fort Knox, Ky., but in Afghanistan he was assigned to a combat engineer battalion. The Pentagon provided no details about the circumstances of his death.

Army Spc. Kyle R. Rookey, 23, of Oswego, N.Y., died last Sunday in Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan in a noncombat incident. As is standard with noncombat deaths the Pentagon offered no other details pending an investigation. Rookey is survived by his wife, Victoria, and a daughter, Flora, according to a report by CNYCentral.com in Syracuse, which said Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered that flags at all state buildings fly at half-staff Friday in Rookey's honor.
"I am the author of my own misfortune, I don't need a ghost writer" - Ian Dury


"Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumus."


Mountebank
Sgt. Major
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Somewhere else

Re: AG

Post by Mountebank »

Ever wonder why the US is in Afghanistan — the planet’s foremost narco-state?
Young men are dying for the pharmaceutical industry and the War On Drugs. Not the Taliban or human rights bullshit, for fuck's sake.

User avatar

Topic author
powerlifter54
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7976
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:46 pm
Location: TX

Re: AG

Post by powerlifter54 »

What a duck says wrote:Ever wonder why the US is in Afghanistan — the planet’s foremost narco-state?
Young men are dying for the pharmaceutical industry and the War On Drugs. Not the Taliban or human rights bullshit, for fuck's sake.

Read the article. Please explain your take on it. How does this impact pharm industry? We don't seem to be doing any War on Drugs over there...seem to be not doing crap about opium...?
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.

"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex

User avatar

tough old man
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:43 pm
Location: Hell

Re: AG

Post by tough old man »

Young men are dying for the pharmaceutical industry and the War On Drugs. Not the Taliban or human rights bullshit, for fuck's sake.
LULZ Oh wait... thats kind of an insult. The pharmicutical reps embedded with the units wont be happy hearing this is out in the open.
"I am the author of my own misfortune, I don't need a ghost writer" - Ian Dury


"Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumus."


TerryB
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 9697
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:17 pm

Re: AG

Post by TerryB »

a national disagrace

vote for Obamney in November!
tough old man wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — It was another week at war in Afghanistan, another string of American casualties, and another collective shrug by a nation weary of a faraway conflict whose hallmark is its grinding inconclusiveness.

After nearly 11 years, many by now have grown numb to the sting of losing soldiers like Pfc. Shane W. Cantu of Corunna, Mich. He died of shrapnel wounds in the remoteness of eastern Afghanistan, not far from the getaway route that Osama bin Laden took when U.S. forces invaded after Sept. 11, 2001, and began America's longest war.

Cantu was 10 back then.

Nearly every day the Pentagon posts another formulaic death notice, each one brief and unadorned, revealing the barest of facts - name, age and military unit - but no words that might capture the meaning of the loss.

Cantu, who joined the Italy-based 173rd Airborne Brigade on Sept. 11 last year and went to Afghanistan last month, was among five U.S. deaths announced this past week, as the Democrats and Republicans wrapped up back-to-back presidential nominating conventions.

American troops are still dying in Afghanistan at a pace that doesn't often register beyond their hometowns. So far this year, it's 31 a month on average, or one per day. National attention is drawn, briefly, to grim and arbitrary milestones such as the 1,000th and 2,000th war deaths. But days, weeks and months pass with little focus by the general public or its political leaders on the individuals behind the statistics.

Each week at war has a certain sameness for those not fighting it, yet every week brings distinct pain and sorrow to the families who learn that their son or daughter, brother or sister, father or mother was killed or wounded.

Cantu died Aug. 28, but the Pentagon did not publicly release his name until Wednesday. He was memorialized by his paratrooper "sky soldier" comrades in Italy on Thursday and honored in his hometown of Corunna, where the high school football coach, Mike Sullivan, was quoted in local news reports as saying the energetic and athletic Cantu had been "the toughest kid I've ever coached — ever known."

He would have turned 21 next month.

His roommate in Afghanistan, Pfc. Cameron Richards, 23, remembers Cantu as a larger-than-life figure, a guy with an infectious smile who took pride in whipping up spaghetti, tacos and other dinners on his portable skillet. It was a knack he attributed to having grown up with five sisters with whom he shared family meal duties.

"He was the type of person you wanted to be around every day," Richards said in a teleephone interview Friday from the brigade's headquarters in Italy, where he returned after being wounded by shrapnel from a hand grenade two weeks before Cantu was killed.

"When he was in the room you knew he was in the room. He'd be the loudest one laughing," he added. "He impacted everybody."

As the war drags on, it remains a faraway puzzle for many Americans. Max Boot, a military historian and defense analyst at the Council on Foreign Relations, has called Afghanistan the "Who Cares?" war. "Few, it seems, do, except for service personnel and their families," he wrote recently. "It is almost as if the war isn't happening at all."

One measure of how far the war has receded into the background in America is the fact that it was not even mentioned by Mitt Romney in his speech last week accepting the Republican presidential nomination. President Barack Obama has pledged to end the main U.S. combat role in Afghanistan by the end of 2014, but current plans call for some thousands of U.S. troops to remain long after that to train Afghans and hunt terrorists.

The war remains at the forefront, naturally, for members of the military such as Marine Lt. Gen. John Kelly, whose son, 2nd Lt. Robert M. Kelly, was killed by a roadside bomb in southern Afghanistan in November 2010.

"America as a whole today is certainly not at war, not as a country, not as a people," Kelly said in a speech Aug. 28 at the American Legion's national convention. Kelly is Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's senior military assistant.

"Only a tiny fraction of American families fear all day and every day a knock at the door that will shatter their lives," Kelly said.


That knock came this past week for more families, including that of Jeremie S. Border, a 28-year-old Army Special Forces staff sergeant from Mesquite, Texas. His alma mater, McMurry University, said he graduated in 2006 with degrees in sociology and communications. He played four seasons for the school's football team, whose players will wear a helmet decal bearing his uniform number, 28, for the remainder of this season.

The Pentagon said Tuesday that he was killed by small arms fire last Saturday, along with Army Staff Sgt. Jonathan P. Schmidt, 28, of Petersburg, Va., a graduate of Thomas Dale High School outside Richmond. Schmidt was an explosive ordnance disposal expert assigned to a unit based at Fort Bragg, N.C. The Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer reported that he joined the Army in 2003 and is survived by his wife and one son.

Marine Lance Cpl. Alec R. Terwiske, 21, of Dubois, Ind., was killed in combat last Monday in Helmand province. He was a reservist with a tank battalion based at Fort Knox, Ky., but in Afghanistan he was assigned to a combat engineer battalion. The Pentagon provided no details about the circumstances of his death.

Army Spc. Kyle R. Rookey, 23, of Oswego, N.Y., died last Sunday in Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan in a noncombat incident. As is standard with noncombat deaths the Pentagon offered no other details pending an investigation. Rookey is survived by his wife, Victoria, and a daughter, Flora, according to a report by CNYCentral.com in Syracuse, which said Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered that flags at all state buildings fly at half-staff Friday in Rookey's honor.
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"

Image

User avatar

DrDonkeyLove
Sergeant Commanding
Posts: 8034
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:04 am
Location: Deep in a well

Re: AG

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

protobuilder wrote:a national disagrace

vote for Obamney in November!
tough old man wrote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — It was another week at war in Afghanistan, another string of American casualties, and another collective shrug by a nation weary of a faraway conflict whose hallmark is its grinding inconclusiveness.

After nearly 11 years, many by now have grown numb to the sting of losing soldiers like Pfc. Shane W. Cantu of Corunna, Mich. He died of shrapnel wounds in the remoteness of eastern Afghanistan, not far from the getaway route that Osama bin Laden took when U.S. forces invaded after Sept. 11, 2001, and began America's longest war.

Cantu was 10 back then.

Nearly every day the Pentagon posts another formulaic death notice, each one brief and unadorned, revealing the barest of facts - name, age and military unit - but no words that might capture the meaning of the loss.

Cantu, who joined the Italy-based 173rd Airborne Brigade on Sept. 11 last year and went to Afghanistan last month, was among five U.S. deaths announced this past week, as the Democrats and Republicans wrapped up back-to-back presidential nominating conventions.

American troops are still dying in Afghanistan at a pace that doesn't often register beyond their hometowns. So far this year, it's 31 a month on average, or one per day. National attention is drawn, briefly, to grim and arbitrary milestones such as the 1,000th and 2,000th war deaths. But days, weeks and months pass with little focus by the general public or its political leaders on the individuals behind the statistics.

Each week at war has a certain sameness for those not fighting it, yet every week brings distinct pain and sorrow to the families who learn that their son or daughter, brother or sister, father or mother was killed or wounded.

Cantu died Aug. 28, but the Pentagon did not publicly release his name until Wednesday. He was memorialized by his paratrooper "sky soldier" comrades in Italy on Thursday and honored in his hometown of Corunna, where the high school football coach, Mike Sullivan, was quoted in local news reports as saying the energetic and athletic Cantu had been "the toughest kid I've ever coached — ever known."

He would have turned 21 next month.

His roommate in Afghanistan, Pfc. Cameron Richards, 23, remembers Cantu as a larger-than-life figure, a guy with an infectious smile who took pride in whipping up spaghetti, tacos and other dinners on his portable skillet. It was a knack he attributed to having grown up with five sisters with whom he shared family meal duties.

"He was the type of person you wanted to be around every day," Richards said in a teleephone interview Friday from the brigade's headquarters in Italy, where he returned after being wounded by shrapnel from a hand grenade two weeks before Cantu was killed.

"When he was in the room you knew he was in the room. He'd be the loudest one laughing," he added. "He impacted everybody."

As the war drags on, it remains a faraway puzzle for many Americans. Max Boot, a military historian and defense analyst at the Council on Foreign Relations, has called Afghanistan the "Who Cares?" war. "Few, it seems, do, except for service personnel and their families," he wrote recently. "It is almost as if the war isn't happening at all."

One measure of how far the war has receded into the background in America is the fact that it was not even mentioned by Mitt Romney in his speech last week accepting the Republican presidential nomination. President Barack Obama has pledged to end the main U.S. combat role in Afghanistan by the end of 2014, but current plans call for some thousands of U.S. troops to remain long after that to train Afghans and hunt terrorists.

The war remains at the forefront, naturally, for members of the military such as Marine Lt. Gen. John Kelly, whose son, 2nd Lt. Robert M. Kelly, was killed by a roadside bomb in southern Afghanistan in November 2010.

"America as a whole today is certainly not at war, not as a country, not as a people," Kelly said in a speech Aug. 28 at the American Legion's national convention. Kelly is Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's senior military assistant.

"Only a tiny fraction of American families fear all day and every day a knock at the door that will shatter their lives," Kelly said.


That knock came this past week for more families, including that of Jeremie S. Border, a 28-year-old Army Special Forces staff sergeant from Mesquite, Texas. His alma mater, McMurry University, said he graduated in 2006 with degrees in sociology and communications. He played four seasons for the school's football team, whose players will wear a helmet decal bearing his uniform number, 28, for the remainder of this season.

The Pentagon said Tuesday that he was killed by small arms fire last Saturday, along with Army Staff Sgt. Jonathan P. Schmidt, 28, of Petersburg, Va., a graduate of Thomas Dale High School outside Richmond. Schmidt was an explosive ordnance disposal expert assigned to a unit based at Fort Bragg, N.C. The Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer reported that he joined the Army in 2003 and is survived by his wife and one son.

Marine Lance Cpl. Alec R. Terwiske, 21, of Dubois, Ind., was killed in combat last Monday in Helmand province. He was a reservist with a tank battalion based at Fort Knox, Ky., but in Afghanistan he was assigned to a combat engineer battalion. The Pentagon provided no details about the circumstances of his death.

Army Spc. Kyle R. Rookey, 23, of Oswego, N.Y., died last Sunday in Jalalabad in eastern Afghanistan in a noncombat incident. As is standard with noncombat deaths the Pentagon offered no other details pending an investigation. Rookey is survived by his wife, Victoria, and a daughter, Flora, according to a report by CNYCentral.com in Syracuse, which said Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered that flags at all state buildings fly at half-staff Friday in Rookey's honor.
Is the best that we offer the world dying for any legitimate reason? As far as I can see, the answer is no, no, no.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: AG

Post by Turdacious »

tough old man wrote:
Young men are dying for the pharmaceutical industry and the War On Drugs. Not the Taliban or human rights bullshit, for fuck's sake.
LULZ Oh wait... thats kind of an insult. The pharmicutical reps embedded with the units wont be happy hearing this is out in the open.
Lotta money in Motrin 8's apparently.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


Mountebank
Sgt. Major
Posts: 3439
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Somewhere else

Re: AG

Post by Mountebank »

The War on Drugs is kept going here to keep prices artificially high, so that the products from the opium poppy that we are NOT destroying over there are maximized for profit when sold elsewhere. Under Taliban control, there was almost no poppy production...under our occupation, record crops, with AG producing something like 75-93% of the world's opium poppies.

I may have been hasty saying that was the only reason. There's also this:
Image

The ideas that we are there for some cave-dwelling terrorists and/or human rights is laughable. Always follow the money.

The US is diversifying our assets. Since we are losing our stake in Middle Eastern oil, we're moving into more drugs and minerals. Gotta maintain our American opulence somehow.

User avatar

Herv100
Sgt. Major
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:12 am

Re: AG

Post by Herv100 »

LOL! Hey guys, 2006 called and wants its outrage over a bullshit war back!
Image

User avatar

Shafpocalypse Now
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:26 pm

Re: AG

Post by Shafpocalypse Now »

Because we're mining so much shit and transporting it, right? No smoke. No fire.

The problem with conspiracy theories is they dont take into consideration the idiocy and incompetence of our leaders, military, politically, socially, and otherwise. Remember, 50% of the population is on the left side of the bell curve of intelligence, and a significant number of intelligent people are also just incompetent at what they do.

User avatar

Herv100
Sgt. Major
Posts: 3783
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:12 am

Re: AG

Post by Herv100 »

Also, I thought this was a thread about silver. Afghanistan is AFG.
Last edited by Herv100 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar

Turdacious
Lifetime IGer
Posts: 21247
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan

Re: AG

Post by Turdacious »

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Because we're mining so much shit and transporting it, right?
The spice must flow.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule

Post Reply