IGX

"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

propaganda: information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.



Sorry but an astronomer trying to identify a new star or a bacteriologist isolating a particular strain does not fall into the above category unless they have an agenda. I would say a good amount of them just want to learn about their field.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

"Jews are the chosen people of God"...prime example, right there.

He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

Kazuya Mishima wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

"Jews are the chosen people of God"...prime example, right there.

Always nice to hear from the Pavlovian Jew-haters.

** BD, Baffled, FC, Kaz... fighting Pavlovian itch to respond... **

Hebrew Hammer wrote:He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

Maybe your mind works that way. On issues like that which are overly controversial and I don't have the means or desire to investigate for myself, I tend to have no opinion.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

Kazuya Mishima wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

"Jews are the chosen people of God"...prime example, right there.

Always nice to hear from the Pavlovian Jew-haters.

** BD, Baffled, FC, Kaz... fighting Pavlovian itch to respond... **

Everyone has an agenda. Everyone. Except that the agenda of mathematicians, astronomers, physicists and engineers can take us to the stars. The agenda of religious fanatics can only take us back to the Bronze Age shitholes they were founded in, which is the only place those religions can exert power over their worshipers.

kreator wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

Maybe your mind works that way. On issues like that which are overly controversial and I don't have the means or desire to investigate for myself, I tend to have no opinion.

You're fooling yourself. Your mind works that way all the time. Should I drive over this bridge? Should I trust this person? Will the sun come up tomorrow? Do I expect to see tides tomorrow like I see today?

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

kreator wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

Maybe your mind works that way. On issues like that which are overly controversial and I don't have the means or desire to investigate for myself, I tend to have no opinion.

You're fooling yourself. Your mind works that way all the time. Should I drive over this bridge? Should I trust this person? Will the sun come up tomorrow? Do I expect to see tides tomorrow like I see today?

Uh, no. I can verify all those things for myself. Global warming, I can't.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

You would enjoy the book I posted on in the review section, "Thinking: Fast and Slow". This is definitely one of its topics. Also of Peter Ralston. We by necessity have to fill in huge voids of knowledge in order to go about our lives. The intuitive System 1 is perfectly happy collecting just enough non-conflicting info and working with that until something comes up to move it off of its warm & fuzzy. Your propaganda fills in nicely.

Hebrew Hammer wrote: "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

The author claims to be a deep thinker, then distorts the meaning of his key term.
Maybe he should think before he writes.

nafod wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:He obviously stretches the word, but the point he makes is how we determine what is true. Our minds work like this -- "Well, the overwhelming majority of scientists support global warming, so I believe it's true." Or, "a strong dissenting minority has exposed the liberal bias of the global warming scientist pack, so I believe them." None of us has the tools or time to dig into it much beyond popular articles." He uses the word propaganda to describe that process of persuasion, an overstatement to make the point.

You would enjoy the book I posted on in the review section, "Thinking: Fast and Slow". This is definitely one of its topics. Also of Peter Ralston. We by necessity have to fill in huge voids of knowledge in order to go about our lives. The intuitive System 1 is perfectly happy collecting just enough non-conflicting info and working with that until something comes up to move it off of its warm & fuzzy. Your propaganda fills in nicely.

I've heard about the book and will take a look. When you think about a great quarterback or linebacker, they have the ability to capture an extraordinary amount of data in fractions of a second and act, a level of in the zone that's incredible. I think getting good at anything is developing the skill to decide correctly more often in the face of always-present uncertainty.

Turdacious wrote:

Useful for quantum mechanics...useless for everything else. Everyone knows that even if HH is wrong and he doesn't post here....he is still wrong.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

If the definition used allows the equation of the vicious lies of Goebells to the objective peer-reviewed weight of scientific opinion, then it is of questionable relevance.

What the author seeks to point ou using "propoganda" is the impossibility of total understanding of exponentially growing fields of technical expertise for the ordinary man. It is a theme I've heard before. I believe the example was the fact that NO-ONE knows how to make a few different things now in use. Perhaps aircraft. Or TVs. Experts will only know how to design and manufacture individual components.

Old hat.

Gorbachev wrote:

Hebrew Hammer wrote:"We cannot 'guard against' propaganda; we should be lost without it. Most of us know that the earth moves round the sun because we have accepted the propaganda of mathematicians and astronomers, or that vaccination prevents smallpox because we believe the arguments of physicians and bacteriologists; but few laymen can produce adequate scientific evidence to support these propositions. So with most of our opinions and attitudes. We live in a reported universe, and our most essential information comes to us, at best, at second hand." William Hummel and Keith Huntress, "What is Propaganda?" (1949), in Think Before You Write 402, 404 (William G. Leary & James Steel Smith eds., 1951).

If the definition used allows the equation of the vicious lies of Goebells to the objective peer-reviewed weight of scientific opinion, then it is of questionable relevance.

What the author seeks to point ou using "propoganda" is the impossibility of total understanding of exponentially growing fields of technical expertise for the ordinary man. It is a theme I've heard before. I believe the example was the fact that NO-ONE knows how to make a few different things now in use. Perhaps aircraft. Or TVs. Experts will only know how to design and manufacture individual components.

Old hat.

The first thing that popped into my head while watching Terminator:Salvation was "Wow, I'm glad enough people survived the apocalypse who happened to know how to refine jet fuel and repair and service fighter jet avionics and engines, not to mention fly them.

I saw I was mentioned with the "Jew haters". I don't hate Jews, I just think HH is a creep.

I am pretty excited to see how HH is going to bring this thread full circle with a thinly veiled hate piece in defense of Zionism and Jewish bigotry.

Hebrew Hammer wrote:

nafod wrote: You would enjoy the book I posted on in the review section, "Thinking: Fast and Slow". This is definitely one of its topics. . . We by necessity have to fill in huge voids of knowledge in order to go about our lives. The intuitive System 1 is perfectly happy collecting just enough non-conflicting info and working with that until something comes up to move it off of its warm & fuzzy. . . .

I've heard about the book and will take a look.

thinking fast and slow demonstrates how much we rely on bias of which we are unaware and how much intuition is misguided and leads to questionable judgments.

we're mostly lazy thinkers