"It's different, people are really scared."

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

I'd Hit It wrote:
Turdacious wrote:That report doesn't address economic mobility of the first generation immigrants compared to citizens in similar economic situations. Compare African-American economic mobility to the economic mobility of black immigrants.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is something you should oppose.
You can't simply consider current economic situations though. You need to compare immigrants of similar economic and socio-educational backgrounds. A penniless immigrant who was an engineer, teacher, small business owner, etc in their home country is going to do better than a penniless eight-grade dropout. Even with the cultural disparity. The education offered to some kids coming out of poorer schools is atrocious. High school graduates exit barely literate. Even if an educated immigrant comes over not knowing any English they can at least read in their own language.
The economic mobility issue is what put me off the flat tax. Everybody paying an proportionate amount of tax is the most fair option. But when being born into a middle class family locks you into being middle class, or (worse) being born rich is likely to keep you rich, that's a real problem.

It's troubling that people have an easier time working their way up in the world in Europe. If there's a solution that sorts this out without redistribution, the GOP should be pushing it very, very hard, because the obvious answer is more progressive taxation and taxing liquid estate holdings more heavily.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by Andy83 »

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:
Batboy2/75 wrote: I have never voted for a Democrat. As long as they support socialism, I never will.
I also consider myself a "Classical Liberal."

I voted for a dem for the first time in 20 years plus. I thought Amy Klobuchar was an ultra left nut case when she first ran for office and she's almost that bad. However, she does two things that impress the hell out of me and pisses off her own party at times:

1. she will get pit bull fight nasty to help any combat veteran from Minnesota
2. she will have her office pester, badger and make a living hell of the lives of government administrators who fuck with H1B visa holders.

http://klobuchar.senate.gov/

I'm glad she won in a landslide.

I think most everybody around here is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. How does that classify you? Libertarian.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by odin »

don't know enough about your economics to really have an opinion or care, but honestly massive lol @ the fear of muslim influence in government. Islamic influence only really exists in the pages of the tabloid press or the minds of fools. No noteworthy political party, no military influence, no economic influence, (here in the UK anyway - an alleged hotbed of Islamism). They have nothing other than a few notable loudmouths and some sinister indiscretions among their number to worry the rest of us. Plus the ruling powers that be are far too in control to let that shit happen, (the proper power brokers, not the glove puppets btw).
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

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I'd Hit It wrote:
Turdacious wrote:That report doesn't address economic mobility of the first generation immigrants compared to citizens in similar economic situations. Compare African-American economic mobility to the economic mobility of black immigrants.

The soft bigotry of low expectations is something you should oppose.
You can't simply consider current economic situations though. You need to compare immigrants of similar economic and socio-educational backgrounds. A penniless immigrant who was an engineer, teacher, small business owner, etc in their home country is going to do better than a penniless eight-grade dropout. Even with the cultural disparity. The education offered to some kids coming out of poorer schools is atrocious. High school graduates exit barely literate. Even if an educated immigrant comes over not knowing any English they can at least read in their own language.
They still get better results.

From the Brookings Exsum you linked to:
Immigrants continue to realize significant gains in upward mobility between the first and second generation, although those gains have narrowed for the latest generation.
A comparison of first generation immigrants in 1970 and second generation immigrants in 2000 reveals that average wages increased by 5 percentage points relative to non-immigrant wages. Between 1940 and 1970, there was an increase of nearly 9 percentage points. In both cases, second generation immigrants continue to have higher wages than non-immigrants.
Overwhelmingly immigrants come to America to work-- our welfare policy is designed to kill that motivation.
Last edited by Turdacious on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

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David Frum dispels the "march towards socialism" nonsense:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/12/opinion/f ... ?hpt=hp_t2
Compare the United States of 2012 to the United States of 1962. Leave aside the obvious points about segregation and discrimination, and look only at the economy.

In 1962, the government regulated the price and route of every airplane, every freight train, every truck and every merchant ship in the United States. The government regulated the price of natural gas. It regulated the interest on every checking account and the commission on every purchase or sale of stock. Owning a gold bar was a serious crime that could be prosecuted under the Trading with the Enemy Act. The top rate of income tax was 91%.

It was illegal to own a telephone. Phones had to be rented from the giant government-regulated monopoly that controlled all telecommunications in the United States. All young men were subject to the military draft and could escape only if they entered a government-approved graduate course of study. The great concern of students of American society -- of liberals such as David Riesman, of conservatives such as Russell Kirk, and of radicals such as Dwight Macdonald -- was the country's stultifying, crushing conformity.

Even if you look only at the experiences of white heterosexual men, the United States of 2012 is a freer country in almost every way than the United States of 1962.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

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odin wrote: massive lol @ the fear of muslim influence in government. Islamic influence only really exists in the pages of the tabloid press or the minds of fools. No noteworthy political party, no military influence, no economic influence, (here in the UK anyway - an alleged hotbed of Islamism). They have nothing other than a few notable loudmouths and some sinister indiscretions among their number to worry the rest of us. Plus the ruling powers that be are far too in control to let that shit happen, (the proper power brokers, not the glove puppets btw
I know, right? LOL. They'd need massive amounts of petro-dollar cash to fund their operations, highly-motivated people who can act like they've assimilated but who work to block and obsfucate legislation that might expose anti-Islamic agendas and sympathetic parties in high levels of government whose silence can be bought or whose general apathy, ignorance and devotion to political correctness means they will always look the other way.

That could never, ever happen. LOL.

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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

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JonnyCat wrote:
odin wrote: massive lol @ the fear of muslim influence in government. Islamic influence only really exists in the pages of the tabloid press or the minds of fools. No noteworthy political party, no military influence, no economic influence, (here in the UK anyway - an alleged hotbed of Islamism). They have nothing other than a few notable loudmouths and some sinister indiscretions among their number to worry the rest of us. Plus the ruling powers that be are far too in control to let that shit happen, (the proper power brokers, not the glove puppets btw
I know, right? LOL. They'd need massive amounts of petro-dollar cash to fund their operations, highly-motivated people who can act like they've assimilated but who work to block and obsfucate legislation that might expose anti-Islamic agendas and sympathetic parties in high levels of government whose silence can be bought or whose general apathy, ignorance and devotion to political correctness means they will always look the other way.

That could never, ever happen. LOL.
Are we talking about the Jews again?
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by Freki »

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
JonnyCat wrote:
odin wrote: massive lol @ the fear of muslim influence in government. Islamic influence only really exists in the pages of the tabloid press or the minds of fools. No noteworthy political party, no military influence, no economic influence, (here in the UK anyway - an alleged hotbed of Islamism). They have nothing other than a few notable loudmouths and some sinister indiscretions among their number to worry the rest of us. Plus the ruling powers that be are far too in control to let that shit happen, (the proper power brokers, not the glove puppets btw
I know, right? LOL. They'd need massive amounts of petro-dollar cash to fund their operations, highly-motivated people who can act like they've assimilated but who work to block and obsfucate legislation that might expose anti-Islamic agendas and sympathetic parties in high levels of government whose silence can be bought or whose general apathy, ignorance and devotion to political correctness means they will always look the other way.

That could never, ever happen. LOL.
Are we talking about the Jews again?
I'm guessing liberals, actually...
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by DARTH »

lasalle wrote:
DARTH wrote:Let me just laugh now as when the weakend West is engulfed from with in and with out in World War III it will be totally inappropriate.

You can run up deficits to a point when you are the strongest nation around militarily and you have something like the Soviet Union to contend with. Remember all but the most Liberal Democrat were in favour of much higher levels of defense spending than those who make up the majority of the party do today,by the comparison of what money was worth back then.

Whether you agreed with Iraq and Afghanistan and the larger and much more global war on terror, t stirred up alot of shit. Thinking that disengagement from Iraq and suppossedly in Afghanistan, weakness in lettling shitheads storm the walls of the embassy in Cairo and faithlessness to our own in Benghazi is going to make them less inclined to attack us and our people abroad is denilal.

The Russian Navy is back to sending attack subs to patrol the Worlds Oceans like they did durring the Soviet era, according to statments made by their goverment. Putin aint going fucking anywhere for the foreseeable future.

China has a new fighter in the F-35/F-22 mode. Gee fighters might still be important after all. They are making friends in our hemisphere. They own alot of our debt. And they might not be as rational in few years with all the internal issues they have and will have.

Iran is building a bomb. They are also making friends in our hemishere.

No chance of just maybe one of these issues have a damaging effect on us?

Naaaahhh! Nothing is going to happen. \:D/

Sometimes it does make a difference who the President is.

And the rich motherfucker who none the less has made a complete success out of just about everything he has done (Except of getting elected ](*,) is better suited to those times.

Better suited at least than a smug little double talking, bitch subserviant prick who wrote 2 books that spell him out well, taught a bunch of anti Constitutional bullshit and used to threaten to pull the racist card on banks who would not give minorities home loans when their credit ratings and income did not qualify them, many that later went into forecloser.

He don't have to be from Kenya, an avowed communist and a proven cocksucker.

Just look at what he has done (and what little of it is good) and what a double talking outright lier he is.

Fuck it, 4 people dead in Benghazi, his White House knew what was happening. So right there if he did not know it's fucking neglagent at least and he most certianly knew about it when he hopped on Air Force 1 to hang with Beyonce and Jay-Z and pick up some cash.

He knew about it a couple days after when he mentioned the stupid litle Youtube clips and he knew about it when Susan Rice went around every morning talk show that Sunday and put it right on the video.

Now we hear that General Hamm was told to stand down whe he wanted to send assets in and said he could do so. He thought the situation dire and important enough to tell them he was going anyways. He was aprehended by his 2IC and releaved of command.

Why would a decorated, highly respected, combat tested seinor officer think it was worth it to disobey orders and knowingly risk his career?

Come the fuck on America!

At least a little more than half of you who voted providing there was not a large degree of fraud.

4 more years of a cunt in a man's chair.
You get 20% of the GDP on military spending. We spend more on the military than Russia and China combined. We spend more on the military than all of our first world allies combined.

What isn't getting done that you want to see done? Dropping bombs on Iran? You want to open up a third front?

Read much Roman history?

More than you do. Read much on true American military capability?

Dont need a 3rd front, just air superiority, something we would have in the first 20 minutes over Iran.

It can be done, but would not have to happen if we had a POTUS that strait up told them that the second we think they have a nuke we will treat it as if they are going to attack us, they might stop if convenced we mean it. My point is, Why the fuck would you want Obama in charge with all the potential dangers about us?

What do you want? Tel Aviv, Rome or DC nuked?

My way kills them, your way kills us. The problem is not our 2 wars (plus all the other shit) it's the way the 2 wars are fought. We need to meld the late 80s/1990s tactic of favouring air campaigns with increased ruthlessness and getting it thorugh our heads that you should give fuck all for the enemy people beyond killing them for killing's sake. if they are near a target , they die, tough shit we killed better in every war we have won. If they dont live near a target, leave them alone.

They don't build a nuke? Leave them alone and make a real effort to build relationsips with Iranian individuals while maintaining a stonewall but noninvasive for the long term stance with their goverment.

How come everyone knows if you let yourself get fucked around and dont take some kind of serious recoarse then you can expect others to try and fuck you around? Yet think that it's different in international affairs?

History shows different.

If there is going to be a forced orgy, I want to be doing some fucking and not getting fucked.




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odin
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by odin »

JonnyCat wrote:
odin wrote: massive lol @ the fear of muslim influence in government. Islamic influence only really exists in the pages of the tabloid press or the minds of fools. No noteworthy political party, no military influence, no economic influence, (here in the UK anyway - an alleged hotbed of Islamism). They have nothing other than a few notable loudmouths and some sinister indiscretions among their number to worry the rest of us. Plus the ruling powers that be are far too in control to let that shit happen, (the proper power brokers, not the glove puppets btw
I know, right? LOL. They'd need massive amounts of petro-dollar cash to fund their operations, highly-motivated people who can act like they've assimilated but who work to block and obsfucate legislation that might expose anti-Islamic agendas and sympathetic parties in high levels of government whose silence can be bought or whose general apathy, ignorance and devotion to political correctness means they will always look the other way.

That could never, ever happen. LOL.
well, that's a point of view, certainly. However, if I had to put my faith in one of the numerous conspiracy theories about how America is run I would not go with that one. The Jewish one holds more water; Jewish companies at least have control of big chunks of your federal reserve, which makes them somewhat powerful.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by Fat Cat »

Batboy2/75 wrote:
tough old man wrote:Lets go all Starship Trooper. No military service = No Citizenship = No Vote.

Why not. Starshiptrooper is nothing more than a thesis on the concept of liberty and citizenship. You have to have a stake in society in order to a be real citizen.


Wealth
Age
Race
Gender

are all imperfect ways of trying to have an educated or at least engaged voting pool. The discussion evolves in the book on how do you balance equal opportunity with having a stake in society. It comes down to at one point putting your life on the line for society at large. If you do that, you have earned the right and knowledge of the sacrifice to be a real citizen.

This concept that you get the right to vote because you won the genetic lottery is crazy. Being a citizen involves being willing to personnaly sacrifice your life for the tribe.

Without overstating my position, I am nonplussed by the idea of improving the situation by adding the burden of another bloated government program to our already overextended finances. Also, the Constitution...
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X »

Andy79 wrote:
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:
Batboy2/75 wrote: I have never voted for a Democrat. As long as they support socialism, I never will.
I also consider myself a "Classical Liberal."

I voted for a dem for the first time in 20 years plus. I thought Amy Klobuchar was an ultra left nut case when she first ran for office and she's almost that bad. However, she does two things that impress the hell out of me and pisses off her own party at times:

1. she will get pit bull fight nasty to help any combat veteran from Minnesota
2. she will have her office pester, badger and make a living hell of the lives of government administrators who fuck with H1B visa holders.

http://klobuchar.senate.gov/

I'm glad she won in a landslide.

I think most everybody around here is socially liberal and fiscally conservative. How does that classify you? Libertarian.
I'm not sure where you're going with that comment so let me just say that the combat vet point is a social issue that I care about. The H1B issue is more business driven, but since I've come to know many dozens of H1B's, most of which are far far 'better' people than those of us born on this soil, I guess you can say I have a social dog in that fight as well.

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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by bigpeach »

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:
Batboy2/75 wrote: I have never voted for a Democrat. As long as they support socialism, I never will.
I also consider myself a "Classical Liberal."

I voted for a dem for the first time in 20 years plus. I thought Amy Klobuchar was an ultra left nut case when she first ran for office and she's almost that bad. However, she does two things that impress the hell out of me and pisses off her own party at times:

1. she will get pit bull fight nasty to help any combat veteran from Minnesota
2. she will have her office pester, badger and make a living hell of the lives of government administrators who fuck with H1B visa holders.

http://klobuchar.senate.gov/

I'm glad she won in a landslide.
Also, she has some impressive knockers for a woman of her stature. That's what I remember of her when I met her at the Anoka halloween parade in 2006.
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Re: "It's different, people are really scared."

Post by bigpeach »

Just remember, when shit hits the fan, and it will any day now, you'll need lots of batteries and expensive LED light bulbs. And, only those bought in Omaha will help you survive.
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