I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm an atheist who doesn't respond well to orders. I accommodated this by never joining the military.Gorbachev wrote:Milosz, you're the sort of half-wit who would carry out a Code Red, aren't you? Did you even watch the movie??
Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
milosz
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Grandpa's Spells »
Not very efficient.nafod wrote:You don't become a senior officer with the ability to change things without first being a junior officer. And as a JO you do have real authority, just over a small group. You get to set the example for them. The group gets bigger as you get more senior.Grandpa's Spells wrote:You don't become a junior officer, where you have no authority and limited right to speech, to change military culture. If the goal is calling attention to a perceived problem, he's going about it the right way.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Dan Martin »
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Thatcher II »
You can't handle the truth.milosz wrote:I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm an atheist who doesn't respond well to orders. I accommodated this by never joining the military.Gorbachev wrote:Milosz, you're the sort of half-wit who would carry out a Code Red, aren't you? Did you even watch the movie??
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Thatcher II »
I think you're missing the point. It seems that Christian fundamentalism in the form of evangelical nut jobs are powerfully positioned within West Point and the military in general. This is bad enough but the Academy and the military are allowing them to further their own religious agenda within the formal officer training process. It's insidious. It's wrong. The kid has done 3.5 years and is calling time. That hurts him way out of all proportion to the "cost of training" invested in him by taxpayers. He will need to explain this in every subsequent job interview he has. And many employers won't like it - particularly if they're God-fearing.Ed Zachary wrote:Why is most "kids" want to make a stand when it's someone else footing the bill?
This is almost as stupid as a recruit thinking he should try to change how basic training is run while still in basic. You are in the military you don't have the same rights as a civilian. Sounds to me like he decided the military wasn't for him and now he's trying to make a personal stand as he washes out.
And couldn't he just transfer to another college without all the gnashing of teeth and tearing of robes? I'm not familiar with West Point's polilcy on transfers.
The kid MAY have other issues. He MAY be a bit odd. But it's a very well reasoned and crafted post which will resonate strongly with many other agnostics an atheists living in America.
The rise of fundamentalism of any form is a worry. Allowing it to wrap itself around your military like a strong vine is really fucking irresponsible and wrong. The Rapture? All that shit? Fucking bananas.
Stop with the cynicism for 5 seconds and think about the situation.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Protobuilder »
I admire the kid's stand though would hope that he would have had enough stories to string together into a complete book that would help repay the cost of his education.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Holeyfraggaroley »
Holeyfraggaroley
Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Well, yes, Americans are more concerned with Muslims than the American Taliban. News at 11.Terry B. wrote:If a cadet had quit and signaled an alarm about fundamentalist Muslims who were steadily increasing their grip on power in a service academy, people would be up in arms and lining up to congratulate the whistleblower for his courage. However, it's evangelical Christians that he is talking about so he is going to be called an idiot and his reports tossed aside.
But this isn't some insidious, shocking, secret takeover - everybody knows that right-wing and evangelical viewpoints are highly represented in the military. Demographically speaking, liberal atheists with college degrees don't join up.
milosz
Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
No religion is steadily increasing their grip on power here. It is the painful loosening of it that you are seeing. Couple of Lesbians just got married in the West Point chapel. There's a gay student group at Naval Academy. That hardly aligns with your meme.Terry B. wrote:...steadily increasing their grip on power in a service academy.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Turdacious »
Recruiters less than 100% honest? That never happens.Grandpa's Spells wrote:The decision to go to West Point is made at 17, and they have a super-persuasive recruiting effort that makes zero mention of religion. I imagine fundie angle surprises the hell out of may new cadets.milosz wrote:Smart enough to get into West Point but too stupid to realize that a not-insignificant percentage of officers (and future officers) are religious nuts? My sympathy is lacking.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Batboy2/75 »
Standing up for your principles takes balls, but you also have to have the balls to take your punishment. With that being said; retard boy owes the American taxpayer a shit load of money. Straight to the infantry and the Stan for Mr. Principles. Fucking whiny little cunt. Have the balls to pay the price for your decisions.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Protobuilder »
When events run counter to the status quo, fundamentalists always push back and try to regain their position of strength. Not shocking.nafod wrote:No religion is steadily increasing their grip on power here. It is the painful loosening of it that you are seeing. Couple of Lesbians just got married in the West Point chapel. There's a gay student group at Naval Academy. That hardly aligns with your meme.Terry B. wrote:...steadily increasing their grip on power in a service academy.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
Protobuilder
Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by buckethead »
Of course, once I joined the Marines, fundies were everywhere.
I think there's a long culture of Onward Christian Soldiers in the ground forces. Makes sense when you think of a young man who has to consciously decide to put their very life at risk. A purpose is pretty much a necessity - and Purpose is one of the best purposes.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by buckethead »
I don't disagree to get rid of the Academies, even though they served me very well. However your political favor system comment, I would argue, is completely inaccurate.Batboy2/75 wrote:Eliminate the service acedemies; they are counter to our Republican form of government. It's nothing more than a patronage system, where pols hand out favors to people.
Though anecdotal, of the 100 or so good friends I had in my class, I can't think of one that had a politically connected family in any way. They were all just hard working kids that were good at a lot of things, but usually not exceptional at any. Granted, Gary Hart nominated me because I said I could get him a date with this babe from Florida, but I was an anomaly.
buckethead
Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
BucketHead wrote:I never remember any of this religious bs at the Naval Academy, at all.
Of course, once I joined the Marines, fundies were everywhere.
I think there's a long culture of Onward Christian Soldiers in the ground forces. Makes sense when you think of a young man who has to consciously decide to put their very life at risk. A purpose is pretty much a necessity - and Purpose is one of the best purposes.


"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
I see what you did there.BucketHead wrote:I don't disagree to get rid of the Academies, even though they served me very well. However your political favor system comment, I would argue, is completely inaccurate.Batboy2/75 wrote:Eliminate the service acedemies; they are counter to our Republican form of government. It's nothing more than a patronage system, where pols hand out favors to people.
Though anecdotal, of the 100 or so good friends I had in my class, I can't think of one that had a politically connected family in any way. They were all just hard working kids that were good at a lot of things, but usually not exceptional at any. Granted, Gary Hart nominated me because I said I could get him a date with this babe from Florida, but I was an anomaly.
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by buckethead »
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by buckethead »
I'm not sure where you got your conclusion, but my experience is there are very few free thinkers above the rank of O-3. I would say Alfred's broad brush is reasonably accurate.Turdacious wrote:Complete horseshit-- mindless order followers are never effective military leaders at any level.Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:While I completely agree with him on his views about Christianity being blatantly favored by the service academies in direct opposition to the Constitution, he should have known this going in. The military does not want free thinkers and Humanists. They want order followers, pure and simple. Even at the highest level of military education they aren't looking for radicals questioning orders. And if any one thing on the planet prepares one for blind following, it's religion. No surprise having a strong religious affiliation, especially a Christian one, would be favored at a military academy
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by Turdacious »
In my experience, orders are usually usually light on details and give commanders and noncoms a lot of discretion in how to execute them. I've seen very few assembly line type jobs, although they might be more necessary on a ship (I'm not that familiar with the Navy).BucketHead wrote:I'm not sure where you got your conclusion, but my experience is there are very few free thinkers above the rank of O-3. I would say Alfred's broad brush is reasonably accurate.Turdacious wrote:Complete horseshit-- mindless order followers are never effective military leaders at any level.Alfred_E._Neuman wrote:While I completely agree with him on his views about Christianity being blatantly favored by the service academies in direct opposition to the Constitution, he should have known this going in. The military does not want free thinkers and Humanists. They want order followers, pure and simple. Even at the highest level of military education they aren't looking for radicals questioning orders. And if any one thing on the planet prepares one for blind following, it's religion. No surprise having a strong religious affiliation, especially a Christian one, would be favored at a military academy
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
Post by powerlifter54 »
Terry B. wrote:If a cadet had quit and signaled an alarm about fundamentalist Muslims who were steadily increasing their grip on power in a service academy, people would be up in arms and lining up to congratulate the whistleblower for his courage. However, it's evangelical Christians that he is talking about so he is going to be called an idiot and his reports tossed aside.
I admire the kid's stand though would hope that he would have had enough stories to string together into a complete book that would help repay the cost of his education.
A Muslim killed a lot of folks down at Fort Hood and it was deemed a 'work related incident". But ignoring fundamental islam is another discussion. To say fundies have taken over any large military organization is humorous. I have heard of the fundy CO who was a pain in the ass, but never had one. Had several myself far to the other side. All of them, assholes or great folks, all had the mission first or they didn't last.
And an interesting note is this West Pointer was refused commissioning because of chronic depression a few weeks before he wrote this. i suspect another impending ass kicking today from Navy was the real cause of his mental anguish.
"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex
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Re: Why I Don't Want to Be a West Point Graduate
powerlifter54 wrote:Terry B. wrote:i suspect another impending ass kicking today from Navy was the real cause of his mental anguish.
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