IGX

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

baffled wrote:

Sandman wrote:

DARTH wrote:

baffled wrote:Agreed. Even the smaller guys of today, pretty much everyone not named Klitschko, Price, Fury or Helenius, are still like 6'3" or 6'4".

I think Tyson would have been competitive in almost any era because of the speed and power, but in today's oversized HW division, I don't think he makes it past contender status. Too short.

Tyson in his prime used his shortness compared to others very well. He'd get inside like the Viet Cong and fuck up shop.

This. Tyson of old would have gotten inside on either Klitschko and chopped them down like fucking xmas trees. No hwt could match his speed.

I cannot express how much I disagree with this sentiment. His best bet against either Klitschko would have been a hail mary punch.

Agreed. These new 6'5 240+ heavyweights belong in a different weight class. A 10-inch reach advantage with a game built around the jab, to say nothing of the extra 25 pounds and height, would've chewed Tyson up.

You're not such a cock worshiping retard after all.

I think a reasonable argument can be made for ranking the HW division pre and post maybe 1990. I wouldn't do it, but I can understand why some would. The best case would be guys like Marciano and Louis. Louis was only around 210 most of his career, after cutting weight, he would be a smallish cruiser weight by today's standards. Marciano barely touched 190. He probably would have headed south for light heavy after skipping a couple meals.

Marciano would have been knocked cold by today's best. Probably Frazier too. Just too small.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:..Holyfield was a headbutting muthrfucker...

1st fight. Tyson tried to do headbutting, failed and then appealed to judge.

baffled wrote:

Sandman wrote:

DARTH wrote:

baffled wrote:Agreed. Even the smaller guys of today, pretty much everyone not named Klitschko, Price, Fury or Helenius, are still like 6'3" or 6'4".

I think Tyson would have been competitive in almost any era because of the speed and power, but in today's oversized HW division, I don't think he makes it past contender status. Too short.

Tyson in his prime used his shortness compared to others very well. He'd get inside like the Viet Cong and fuck up shop.

This. Tyson of old would have gotten inside on either Klitschko and chopped them down like fucking xmas trees. No hwt could match his speed.

I cannot express how much I disagree with this sentiment. His best bet against either Klitschko would have been a hail mary punch.

Kimbo Slice coulda beat Klinchko

Wild Bill wrote: 1st fight. Tyson tried to do headbutting, failed and then appealed to judge.

Watch it in action, plenty of good nasty boxing to go around.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Wild Bill wrote: 1st fight. Tyson tried to do headbutting, failed and then appealed to judge.

Watch it in action, plenty of good nasty boxing to go around.

Agreed! They are both filth!

Our kind of scum.

If you are a casual observer of boxing and a general sports fan between the ages of 35 and 45, you have Tyson near the top of your list simply because he was the first heavyweight of our lifetime who really mattered; who had an aura of invincibility and who commanded superstar status.

From his older fights, what stood out to me was his defense. Sure, his power is evident but find anybody in his first 20 or fights who managed to put a hand on him. A few fights before Douglas, he started getting hit (didn't Frank Bruno give him a hard time) and there were half a dozen heavyweights who were ready to step in and hurt him.

If he had managed his finances and stepped aside following Spinks, we would all be ranking him far higher.

Baffled, you've really gone down in my estimation as a boxing fan with your HW list and denigration of Iron Mike. He was a phenomenon. At 19 years old. Walking out, no robe, sweating, staring and knocking fifty shades of shit out of countless opponents. He has had an extraordinary impact on the public consciousness. It's all well and good slagging him off for being nuts. But in his short-lived prime he was fucking invincible. And fought like no one had seen before. A lot of respect due to him. Not bullshit about him not fighting anyone decent. He was an Olympian and World Champ and was perhaps, after Ali, the most famous HW ever. No question. Greatest ever? No for me. But ranks ahead of the fucking Klitchko sisters an Leonora Lewis. Jesus fucking Christ, man.

Gorbachev wrote:Baffled, you've really gone down in my estimation as a boxing fan with your HW list and denigration of Iron Mike. He was a phenomenon. At 19 years old. Walking out, no robe, sweating, staring and knocking fifty shades of shit out of countless opponents. He has had an extraordinary impact on the public consciousness. It's all well and good slagging him off for being nuts. But in his short-lived prime he was fucking invincible. And fought like no one had seen before. A lot of respect due to him. Not bullshit about him not fighting anyone decent. He was an Olympian and World Champ and was perhaps, after Ali, the most famous HW ever. No question. Greatest ever? No for me. But ranks ahead of the fucking Klitchko sisters an Leonora Lewis. Jesus fucking Christ, man.

Fuck, you're an idiot.

Fighters are ranked on what they actually got done, not the hype they generated and the potential they had. A lot of what Tyson did was explosive and he definitely had a style and athleticism not seen before in a heavyweight, but he was doing what prospects do: kick the shit out of cans.

When he stepped up, he beat Spinks (good, but... Spinks had been a career light heavy, but blowing him out in 1 round is still pretty sick), kicked the shit out of a geriatric Larry Holmes who probably shouldn't have even been in the ring, and that was about it. The heavyweight lineage, which he assumed after beating Spinks was only defended twice.

In terms of his in ring accomplishments, his resume is somewhat thin.

Compared to the dominance that Lewis and the Klitschkos have exhibited, he doesn't compare.

All time greats are judged on dominance, not on potential and hype.

And for the last time, when even Tyson says he doesn't deserve to be ranked in the top ten, let alone near the top of that list, it should be taken seriously. Boxers don't have much of a track record of showing humility when discussing their legacies.

PS
It's not like I like ranking Lewis or the Klitschkos ahead of him. That's part of what I think makes Tyson's career such a downer to think about at times. Greatest ever wouldn't have happened even if he held it together, IMO, but a firm #2 or #3 should have been a lock.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:People forget that Tyson was (puffed stats aside) a dude of average height, (5'10") with good reach. Lewis, Foreman and either Klitschko are just too huge anymore. The small HW is a throwback.

After looking into this a bit more I think you guys are right. There is a bias that favors tyson that I think I have fallen victim to. Looking back on it all he was fun to watch and talented but thats about where it ends. It pains me to have been so wrong.