I agree.Nafod wrote:
My kids are far more at risk to some kind of internal gun bullshit than they are to a terror strike.
The fact that our country is awash in guns to the point that any nutcase can easily get one is definitely a part of the problem. Period. NRA lobbying on behalf of the gun manufacturers is a part of the problem. Just follow the money.
Gun Control Doesn't Work
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
"I am the author of my own misfortune, I don't need a ghost writer" - Ian Dury
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
For a smart individual, you don't read very well. I acknowledged that a machete massacre would be more difficult and I made no statement about how likely such attacks might be if people couldn't use guns. (I don't doubt that they would be much less frequent.) The point was that 20 minutes is a long time to allow a nutjob go on a rampage without opposition.BucketHead wrote:For a smart individual you make silly arguments on this subject. No one doubts someone COULD massacre with knives, machetes, etc... but you have to be shitting me if you think it would happen even a fraction of the time it does now.Pinky wrote:a determined attacker could massacre children with machetes purchased from Lowes.
This is why opposition is so important. These killers count on facing minimal resistance. The recent mall shooter in Oregon shot himself after he allegedly had a gun drawn on him by a civilian with a handgun. The school shooting in Ohio earlier this year was stopped when an unarmed football coach chased the kid out of the building.Suburban white "killers" are pussies down deep, at least that's what seems to come out of all these school shootings.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Grossman on school shootings.Grandpa's Spells wrote:There's a very interesting book, "On Killing," that addresses this topic.BucketHead wrote:Suburban white "killers" are pussies down deep, at least that's what seems to come out of all these school shootings. Pussies wouldn't have the cajones to go into a school and kill people with knives.
Who here can remember the first time they had to finish off their hunted wild game by knife. My initial shot from a distance was easy, but it was down right hard to look into their eyes and feel their breath and finish it with a blade.
There is absolutely no difference between this and the military's use of drones, even airplanes. Detached killing is much easier to initially accomplish.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
You're wasting your time.Pinky wrote:It took the cops 20 minutes to show up at Sandy Hook. Police routinely show up to mass shootings too late, unless you get lucky enough to have an off-duty cop there. Unarmed civilians have a better track record at stopping these shootings than cops do. Given 20 minutes with no armed response, a determined attacker could massacre children with machetes purchased from Lowes. (Granted, it would be more difficult, but still possible.)nafod wrote:I'd like to take a dump in Wayne LaPierre's mouth. His "press conference" a week after the shooting was basically and answer to the question, "how can we (NRA and gun manufacturers) make money off of Sandy Hook?"
First, the only way to stop a bad man with a gun (that we sold him directly or through a string of proxies) is a good man with a gun (that he needs to buy from us, thus expanding the total number of gun owners). CHA-Ching!
Second, we need guards at every K-12 school in the country. There are about 100,000 elementary schools in the US x 3 guards/school (is that enough?) x 1 Baretta 9mm or equivalent each (should they have two weapons?) x about $600 each is $180,000,000 right there, before you toss in middle school, junior high and high schools. Think some NRA lobbying bean counter hasn't done the math?
But we're not willing to change that simple math. Ensuring that someone is available to protect our children is madness. It's a conspiracy! We're not even willing to hire more cops, which is shown to effectively lower the sort of crime that happens more regularly than school shootings.
Meanwhile many schools won't even give teachers reasonable instructions for dealing with this stuff. Their lawyers care nothing about bloodshed. They just don't want to be sued by the family of someone who was told that fighting back might be the best option. (I've started telling my classes to ignore our university's lawyer-written policy on active shooters.)
So this isn't a problem that warrants any extra protection for our children, but punishing millions of law-abiding gun owners is just fine?
Nfod and his ilk are all worked up over a statistically small event. American children are no great danger of armed maniacs with guns. However, someone or something, must be vilified.
The fact that more children die from swimming pools than guns or the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing. But, count yourself lucky. You won't have to read Nfod droning on about how his 1,000 hours of pool time or his experience in the UAE Marriott hotel pool or how he wants high capacity Olympic sized pools banned.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Say what?However, the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing.
The majority of violent deaths are suicides, of which guns are used in the majority. Next is homicides, of which guns are again the majority go-to tool. Feel free to show me some data that says otherwise.
Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Nafod is right here. You can look this all up using the CDC's WISQARS data here.nafod wrote:Say what?However, the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing.
The majority of violent deaths are suicides, of which guns are used in the majority. Next is homicides, of which guns are again the majority go-to tool. Feel free to show me some data that says otherwise.
Top 5 causes of violence-related death between 2000 and 2010 are suicide by firearm, homicide by firearm, suicide by suffocation, suicide by poisoning and homicide by cutting or piercing. If you expand the search to all injury deaths, homicide by firearm is number 5.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
For schools I'm a huge proponent of the DOGS program. I cant say it would definitely deter an incident but I felt much more comfortable seeing a few other dads roaming the halls.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
I realize I could google this, but it intrigues me. Can you explain?BucketHead wrote:For schools I'm a huge proponent of the DOGS program. I cant say it would definitely deter an incident but I felt much more comfortable seeing a few other dads roaming the halls.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
nafod wrote:Say what?However, the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing.
The majority of violent deaths are suicides, of which guns are used in the majority. Next is homicides, of which guns are again the majority go-to tool. Feel free to show me some data that says otherwise.
Fruadian slip, the list I was referring to list all accidental deaths or all deaths outside of medical conditions.
Most violent deaths of children is by suicide by gun? Wrong again, most children die violently via car. While we can quibble over what constitutes a violent death, being killed in a car accident is pretty fucking violent.
Since we are on this track. According to the NY Times 1,000 people die on average each year from hit and run accidents. Pretty fucking violent way to go. 1/5 of those deaths are children 5-9 or about 200 children each year. On average 174 children 5-9 are killed by guns each year. So using a pretty strict definition of violent death by car, guns still come up short.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Swimming pools: the real killers of America.Batboy2/75 wrote: You're wasting your time.
Nfod and his ilk are all worked up over a statistically small event. American children are no great danger of armed maniacs with guns. However, someone or something, must be vilified.
The fact that more children die from swimming pools than guns or the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing. But, count yourself lucky. You won't have to read Nfod droning on about how his 1,000 hours of pool time or his experience in the UAE Marriott hotel pool or how he wants high capacity Olympic sized pools banned.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
ecalpal wrote:Swimming pools: the real killers of America.Batboy2/75 wrote: You're wasting your time.
Nfod and his ilk are all worked up over a statistically small event. American children are no great danger of armed maniacs with guns. However, someone or something, must be vilified.
The fact that more children die from swimming pools than guns or the fact that guns aren't even in the top 5 cuases of violent death means nothing. But, count yourself lucky. You won't have to read Nfod droning on about how his 1,000 hours of pool time or his experience in the UAE Marriott hotel pool or how he wants high capacity Olympic sized pools banned.
And fists; if you are a child under 12 and under.
Until the age of 4, you are more likely to be killed by beating or clubbing than a gun.
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offens ... le_09.html
Children under the age of 13 are extremely safe from violent homicide death compared to everyone else.
However, children 0-14 years of age are two times as likely to be killed by a car than being murdered.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809762.pdf
Then yes, there is drowning by pool.
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationals ... sheet.html
2 times as likely to be killed by a pool
However, soccer moms don't want to give up their pools or cars. That would cramp their style. Much easier to get worked up over the least likely of least likely statistical scenarios.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
"Dads of Great Students". I think it came out of Columbine. Dads volunteer two days a school year to roam the halls, help out at lunch and in classes. There was always 3-5 guys each day. The intent was to have more male role models visible at schools. I found it enjoyable and I think the kids liked itsyaigh wrote:
I realize I could google this, but it intrigues me. Can you explain?
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/rep ... 93417.htmlIn 2012, 532 people were murdered in the city of Chicago, according to statistics compiled by the Crime in Chicago website. The number of people murdered the year before was 441, meaning in the city of Chicago, murders have increased by 91 from 2011 to 2012.
The Chicago Police Department was not available to confirm these numbers today, which is New Year's Day.
The website also claims that, through December 25, 2012, there 2,670 people were shot in Chicago last year. That's also an increase from the year before, when 2,217 people were shot in Chicago that year.
In all, it means that on average almost 1.5 people were murdered in Chicago each day last year, while on average 7.3 people were shot each day.
Only a 20% increase, nothing to see here.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
It's due to those with non-violent misdemeanors, obviously. If you do something and have a bad result, then you just didn't do it hard enough seems to be the go-to policy.Turdacious wrote:http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/rep ... 93417.htmlIn 2012, 532 people were murdered in the city of Chicago, according to statistics compiled by the Crime in Chicago website. The number of people murdered the year before was 441, meaning in the city of Chicago, murders have increased by 91 from 2011 to 2012.
The Chicago Police Department was not available to confirm these numbers today, which is New Year's Day.
The website also claims that, through December 25, 2012, there 2,670 people were shot in Chicago last year. That's also an increase from the year before, when 2,217 people were shot in Chicago that year.
In all, it means that on average almost 1.5 people were murdered in Chicago each day last year, while on average 7.3 people were shot each day.
Only a 20% increase, nothing to see here.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/2 ... 24318.html
Days after U.S. District Judge Samuel Der-Yeghiayan ruled that a section of Chicago's gun ordinance unjustly denied residents with prior misdemeanors from possessing firearms, the city is poised to introduce a revised ordinance that would tighten restrictions on gun ownership once again.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel will introduce an updated version of the city's controversial firearms ordinance Wednesday that would prevent anyone convicted of a misdemeanor for a violent crime from being issued a gun permit for five years, the Associated Press reports.
Last Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Samuel Der-Yeghiayan said the language in the city's ordinance was too vague, and shouldn't include individuals convicted of non-violent misdemeanors, like possession charges, in the group of offenders denied access to weapons permits.
That ruling was the second recent blow to Chicago's handgun possession policies after the previous citywide handgun ban was struck down by the Supreme Court in 2010.
Gun-related violence continues to plague the city, where shootings are a daily occurrence and the homicide rate has spiked in recent months, to the degree that more Chicago residents have been killed in 2012 than U.S. troops in Afghanistan over the same time period.
Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Have 20+ children between the ages of 5-7 died suddenly in a swimming pool, wrecking an entire community in the process?
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Stop your logicals.protobuilder wrote:Have 20+ children between the ages of 5-7 died suddenly in a swimming pool, wrecking an entire community in the process?
Don’t believe everything you think.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
nafod wrote:Stop your logicals.protobuilder wrote:Have 20+ children between the ages of 5-7 died suddenly in a swimming pool, wrecking an entire community in the process?
Logical how?
An event so rare that it will not even push child gun homicide deaths! 12 and under, ahead of the two other leading causes?
Stop with your emotional bed wetting.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Pot smokers are the cause of the world's violence, that is clearly.ecalpal wrote:It's due to those with non-violent misdemeanors, obviously.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Twenty kids dying simultaneously in a drowning accident (boat accident?) will make your precious national news, I promise you, and generate changes in laws. They have in the past. Every child drowning in my town makes the news.Batboy2/75 wrote:Logical how?nafod wrote:Stop your logicals.protobuilder wrote:Have 20+ children between the ages of 5-7 died suddenly in a swimming pool, wrecking an entire community in the process?
Twenty kids dying in a car accident (school bus hit by a train, etc.) will make the national news and generate calls for new laws and safety procedures. Google it. I can remember when "just" seven kids were killed in a school bus crash in Illinois which generated changes in laws and procedures.
Considering that millions and millions of kids love the water and spend their summers in and around pools, lakes, and beaches and millions and millions need to ride in vehicles to get to and fro while exactly none of them need to be around guns, the fact that gun violence is even in the mix of numbers ought to be enough to piss off a normal person.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
It does, very much. Newtown is the only public event in my adult life that caused me to shed a tear and be unable to sleep. The poor little jigs and spics getting killed in the crossfire in ones and twos across the country also bothers the hell out of me.nafod wrote:Twenty kids dying simultaneously in a drowning accident (boat accident?) will make your precious national news, I promise you, and generate changes in laws. They have in the past. Every child drowning in my town makes the news.Batboy2/75 wrote:Logical how?nafod wrote:Stop your logicals.protobuilder wrote:Have 20+ children between the ages of 5-7 died suddenly in a swimming pool, wrecking an entire community in the process?
Twenty kids dying in a car accident (school bus hit by a train, etc.) will make the national news and generate calls for new laws and safety procedures. Google it. I can remember when "just" seven kids were killed in a school bus crash in Illinois which generated changes in laws and procedures.
Considering that millions and millions of kids love the water and spend their summers in and around pools, lakes, and beaches and millions and millions need to ride in vehicles to get to and fro while exactly none of them need to be around guns, the fact that gun violence is even in the mix of numbers ought to be enough to piss off a normal person.
The draconian disarm America crowd using Newtown and similar events to further their agenda for knee jerk gun control (and eventual banning) legislation while simultaneously ignoring other factors should also piss off a normal person. What is the % of talk about limiting the rights of gun owners vs the % of talk about hardening soft targets, more closely monitoring psychotropic drugs, increasing access to quality mental health counseling, or limiting the culture of violence driven by Hollywood and the gaming industry? Is it 99/1 or maybe 98/2? If Obama, Cuomo, and Bloomberg were serious about the problem of mass murder, these things would be in the mix along with gun legislation, but they're not because they have one goal - disarming the American people.
Since 9/11 it seems like whenever something horrible occurs, shitting on the Bill of Rights has been sold by BushBama as absolutely necessary and must be done immediately because there is no time for rational debate. Fuck that. Never again.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
All of this thread, other threads, and any gun control discussion really, is simply about one fucking sentence scribed 200+ years ago:DrDonkeyLove wrote: shitting on the Bill of Rights
I cannot fathom how anyone can say that this sentence makes everything crystal clear on who should be allowed to own what. It simply is vague as fuck and seems to be inexorably linked to a well regulated militia.A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
So to call debating or questioning this amendment "shitting on the Bill of Rights" is ludicrous.
And to think anyone questioning this as having an agenda to get rid of all firearms everywhere is even more ludicrous.
But if you ever peel your cap back with the black mack till your back crack, then that's just ludacris.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
200+ years of jurisprudence, recent SC decisions especially, make it pretty clear what it means.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Like the Crips and the Bloods. The Mexican Mafia too.I cannot fathom how anyone can say that this sentence makes everything crystal clear on who should be allowed to own what. It simply is vague as fuck and seems to be inexorably linked to a well regulated militia.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
Ahh... yes, the oft-used-when-it-suits-your-opinion jurisprudence from Supreme Court. So I guess there's no more debate on abortion, then, either. Cases closed.Turdacious wrote:200+ years of jurisprudence, recent SC decisions especially, make it pretty clear what it means.
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Re: Gun Control Doesn't Work
What the hell are you talking about? And if you think there aren't a lot of issues regarding abortion that aren't still open (despite Roe v. Wade), you haven't been paying much attention.BucketHead wrote:Ahh... yes, the oft-used-when-it-suits-your-opinion jurisprudence from Supreme Court. So I guess there's no more debate on abortion, then, either. Cases closed.Turdacious wrote:200+ years of jurisprudence, recent SC decisions especially, make it pretty clear what it means.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule