Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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cleaner464
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by cleaner464 »

Hebrew Hammer wrote:
cleaner464 wrote:HH, I don't care that you are so passionate about Israel. I would just request that you be honest enough to register as a foreign agent.
Me and the other 64% of Americans? http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/ameri ... -high.aspx

By the way, how popular is your national socialist party doing these days in America? It doesn't seel like left-wing fascism is catching on, but I haven't seen the latest Gallup numbers.
Ah yes, anyone who disagrees with you, or questions whether our "alliance" with Israel is to our advantage is a Nazi. Great little rhetorical tool.

You still didn't answer whether or not you consider Pollard a traitor to the US or a hero to Israel.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by baffled »

I think it's only these types of threads, but I wholeheartedly agree with Cleaner.

And everyone else in this thread other than HH, of course.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by DARTH »

HH,

Serious question, in your words...

#1 Pollard, your opinion?

#2 Your allegiance. The USA or Israel?

Not a bait, just want to hear it from you. You know we are cool in RL.




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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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Hebrew Hammer wrote:
cleaner464 wrote:HH, I don't care that you are so passionate about Israel. I would just request that you be honest enough to register as a foreign agent.
Me and the other 64% of Americans? http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/ameri ... -high.aspx

By the way, how popular is your national socialist party doing these days in America? It doesn't seel like left-wing fascism is catching on, but I haven't seen the latest Gallup numbers.
64% of Americans believe in putting another country's interests before their own ? Our days as a nation are numbered, if true.


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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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Hebrew Hammer wrote:Me and the other 64% of Americans? http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/ameri ... -high.aspx
I wouldn't put that much stock in a poll composed in typical American fashion with only two options - either you sympathize with the Israelis or the Palestinians like it's a baseball game. The poll would have been more revealing if they had inquired if anybody could find Israel on a map.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Hebrew Hammer »

DARTH wrote:HH,

Serious question, in your words...

#1 Pollard, your opinion?

#2 Your allegiance. The USA or Israel?

Not a bait, just want to hear it from you. You know we are cool in RL.
Fair questions.

Pollard is a traitor.

Allegiance to USA.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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Hebrew Hammer wrote:
DARTH wrote:HH,

Serious question, in your words...

#1 Pollard, your opinion?

#2 Your allegiance. The USA or Israel?

Not a bait, just want to hear it from you. You know we are cool in RL.
Fair questions.

Pollard is a traitor.

Allegiance to USA.
'Your allegiance' is a fair question?
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.

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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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cleaner464 wrote:
Hebrew Hammer wrote:
cleaner464 wrote:HH, I don't care that you are so passionate about Israel. I would just request that you be honest enough to register as a foreign agent.
Me and the other 64% of Americans? http://www.gallup.com/poll/161387/ameri ... -high.aspx

By the way, how popular is your national socialist party doing these days in America? It doesn't seel like left-wing fascism is catching on, but I haven't seen the latest Gallup numbers.
Ah yes, anyone who disagrees with you, or questions whether our "alliance" with Israel is to our advantage is a Nazi. Great little rhetorical tool.

You still didn't answer whether or not you consider Pollard a traitor to the US or a hero to Israel.

I actually haven't called you a nazi, but a national socialist or a left-wing fascist, maybe somewhere between Mussolini and Chavez. It's that left-wing itch you have for demonizing the Jews that gives you your shine. I think the only other folks on here whose politics I've categorized are Fatty's and Kraj's. Nice club to belong to. Baffled would like to belong, but it just doesn't come naturally to him.

I consider Pollard a traitor to the USA.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Hebrew Hammer »

Terry B. wrote:
Hebrew Hammer wrote:
DARTH wrote:HH,

Serious question, in your words...

#1 Pollard, your opinion?

#2 Your allegiance. The USA or Israel?

Not a bait, just want to hear it from you. You know we are cool in RL.
Fair questions.

Pollard is a traitor.

Allegiance to USA.
'Your allegiance' is a fair question?
From Darth it is. He's asking because he wants to know the answer. For Cleaner, Fatty, or Kraj, the questions are just rhetorical, aiming to inflame Jew-hate.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Shapecharge »

I'm not really up to speed on Pollard. Does anyone know the context of the information he gave to Israel? Was it really some serious shit?

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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by cleaner464 »

So disagreeing with you equals jew-hate?

Wow, do you have an inflated opinion of yourself.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Hebrew Hammer »

Shapecharge wrote:I'm not really up to speed on Pollard. Does anyone know the context of the information he gave to Israel? Was it really some serious shit?
Since he didn't go to trial, the details aren't available. My understanding is that there are two issue:

First, what did he do? The pro-Pollard position is that he found out that we were not passing on information to Israel about Arab nuclear, chemical weapons, and that these threatened Israel's existence. So he told the Israelis. The anti-Pollard say that he may have also given info to other countries (South Africa and Australia, perhaps Pakistan?), and did it for money. Under either category, what he did would legally not be treason, which is giving information to the enemy. He was prosecuted under a different crime --conspiracy to give information to a foreign country.

Second, was his sentence disproportionate? He fully cooperated and pled to the crime. Then, though, his critics say he broke the plea agreement by going to the press to state his side of the case. He got a life sentence, which apparently has never been laid down for someone who didn't commit treason. The court of Appeals upheld his conviction 2-1 over a strong dissent. He's set to be let out in 2015.

Beyond the normal cast of characters who you'd expect, a number of prominent national security officials have called for his release. Here's a list of some supporters and quotes from a pro-Pollard site. http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2011/013011.htm

My own view is that he betrayed the United States, and is a criminal. Whether he should be let out early depends on an assessment of what he did wrong, and whether he was treated fairly compared to others who have committed similar crimes. Since there are no publicly-available answers, I don't know what he did or didn't do. My sense, though, from reading about it is that he was treated disproportionately.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by baffled »

A fairly reasonable answer from HH.

I'm a little peeved though. I didn't know we had an actual anti-Jew club around here.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Hebrew Hammer »

cleaner464 wrote:So disagreeing with you equals jew-hate?

Wow, do you have an inflated opinion of yourself.
You're pathetic when you play the victim card. Next to Gene, I'm one of the juiciest targets here. I'm glad to argue with people over views and even to deal with the inevitable Jew comments that are for the most part harmless and offered without ill intent -- that's life. I point out Jew-hate only when I see it - you and Kraj are at the head of the line, and you have a few fellow travelers.

As an aside, I've also been in elected or appointed office for most of my adult life, and I speak my mind publicly as I do here, which means all kind of folks disagree with me, and may not like me much, and say all kinds of things about me. I've never once said any of them were motivated by Jew-hate. I call it only when I see it as clear.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Fat Cat »

Hebrew Hammer wrote:
Terry B. wrote:
Hebrew Hammer wrote:
DARTH wrote:HH,

Serious question, in your words...

#1 Pollard, your opinion?

#2 Your allegiance. The USA or Israel?

Not a bait, just want to hear it from you. You know we are cool in RL.
Fair questions.

Pollard is a traitor.

Allegiance to USA.
'Your allegiance' is a fair question?
From Darth it is. He's asking because he wants to know the answer. For Cleaner, Fatty, or Kraj, the questions are just rhetorical, aiming to inflame Jew-hate.
I haven't asked any questions on this thread an you have no idea about my politics. Pollard is a traitor, and his kind should get served. It has always been thus.

On the other hand, I support no kind of violence towards, or hate of, Jews. I don't know that I have ever done anything bad to a Jewish person in my entire life.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Fat Cat »

bump for hebe's apology for lying
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Shapecharge »

Okay, understand now HH.

Oh, just so you know, even though I'm not Jewish nor has anyone in my family that I know of, I blame your people for me being circumcised. Who knows what kind of massive schlong I could have had if that half a pound of meat not been taken from me when I was a wee lad. Without my consent!!

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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Hebrew Hammer »

Fat Cat wrote:
On the other hand, I support no kind of violence towards, or hate of, Jews. I don't know that I have ever done anything bad to a Jewish person in my entire life.
Like Cleaner, you too are pathetic as a victim. Your jew hate used to be over the top, and was pointed out by many. Since then, you've held back some. And now when you speak out, you coat your mockery of Jews or Israel with so-very-clever thread titles as if you want to be able to avoid responsibility by claiming to be tongue-in-cheek. It's still an itch you can't resist scratching.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Fat Cat »

Hebrew Hammer wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:
On the other hand, I support no kind of violence towards, or hate of, Jews. I don't know that I have ever done anything bad to a Jewish person in my entire life.
Like Cleaner, you too are pathetic as a victim. Your jew hate used to be over the top, and was pointed out by many. Since then, you've held back some. And now when you speak out, you coat your mockery of Jews or Israel with so-very-clever thread titles as if you want to be able to avoid responsibility by claiming to be tongue-in-cheek. It's still an itch you can't resist scratching.
I'm not a victim of anything other than your blatant and unfounded smear of my good feline name. Also, I didn't make this thread, so I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to clever thread titles. The fact remains, Pollard is a traitor, you are a liar, and I am as faultless as a lamb.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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Shapecharge wrote:Okay, understand now HH.

Oh, just so you know, even though I'm not Jewish nor has anyone in my family that I know of, I blame your people for me being circumcised. Who knows what kind of massive schlong I could have had if that half a pound of meat not been taken from me when I was a wee lad. Without my consent!!
Actually, it's more like pruning, allowing for full growth.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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Hebrew Hammer wrote:
Shapecharge wrote:Okay, understand now HH.

Oh, just so you know, even though I'm not Jewish nor has anyone in my family that I know of, I blame your people for me being circumcised. Who knows what kind of massive schlong I could have had if that half a pound of meat not been taken from me when I was a wee lad. Without my consent!!
Actually, it's more like pruning, allowing for full growth.
It's actually barbaric genital mutilation.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

I hadn't paid attention to Pollard prior to this thread but this really is a big deal to the Israelis.
Jerusalem Post
Knesset members from all nine Zionist factions in the Knesset gathered together Sunday for a model Seder in which they called upon Jews in Israel and the United States to leave an empty seat at their Passover Seders for Israeli agent Jonathan Pollard.

The MKs sat around a table at Construction and Housing Minister Uri Ariel's Jerusalem office with one seat bearing only a picture of Pollard. A similar gimmick was used for kidnapped soldier Gilad Schalit during efforts to bring him home from Hamas captivity in the Gaza Strip.

"Having every Zionist faction in the Knesset here sends a powerful message to President Shimon Peres and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu that they should not give up their efforts to persuade US President Barack Obama to free Pollard," said Bayit Yehudi faction head Ayelet Shaked, who heads the Free Pollard caucus in the new Knesset.

In a reference to Pharoah in the Passover story, Shaked added: "I hope American Jews will see the unity inside Israel and do the maximum to pressure their president not to harden his heart."

Just days after US president Barack Obama's visit to Israel that was deemed successful, coalition chairman Yariv Levin (Likud) slammed him for not accepting repeated requests from Peres to commute Pollard's sentence to the more than 27 years he has served.

"Our brother Jonathan should have been here a long time ago," Levin said. "The cruelty to Pollard goes against the democratic values America was built on.

Shas faction chairman Avraham Michaeli revealed that his party's mentor, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, had sent a message to Obama ahead of his visit, urging him to bring Pollard with him to Israel.

MKs on the Left were equally insistent that Obama made a mistake by not freeing Pollard before he came.

"It would have been fitting if Obama concluded his visit by returning Pollard and allowing him to return to his people in time for Passover," Labor MK Nachman Shai said. "It was really unfortunate that this did not happen."

Meretz MK Ilan Gilon added that although he respected the American justice system, it was clear to him that Pollard had already paid enough of a price for his crime. In a strange statement from a secular MK on the far Left, Gilon said: "I pray that we will soon see Pollard here, healthy and in one piece."

The mock seder ended with the MKs toasting Pollard's health and Ariel reading a prayer for the Israeli agent's welfare that was written by former chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu.

"Pollard's exodus will come," United Torah Judaism MK Yisrael Eichler said. "If not now, then, please God, next year in Jerusalem."
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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They are such good friends of ours, aren't they ? Nothing but good comes from our "special relationship" with them.

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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

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"Pollard's exodus will come," United Torah Judaism MK Yisrael Eichler said. "If not now, then, please God, next year in Jerusalem."
So Obama is Pharoah, and the US is Egypt? Our "allies" have such a wonderful opinion of us.

As far as victim-hood is concerned, HH, you have it down pat and all to yourself.

I just pointed out that you just have a really distorted view of yourself.

Typical actually. Lawyers and doctors both suffer from God complexes.
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Re: Jonathan Pollard - They're at it again.

Post by Fat Cat »

We should send Pollard back one piece at a time.
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