IGX

Herv100 wrote:Yeah, Boston handled things much better than LA!
LOL

protobuilder wrote:Holy shit! This is just full of awesome. The cops missed the street and the boat the first time. And your fellow citizens were most upset taht their homes weren't searched. That has to make you feel good. Plus, the brother was unarmed and the cops apparently jsut unloaded into the boat.

Boston Manhunt ‘Missed the Boat’ as Police Skip Street
By Kathleen M. Howley and Michael McDonald - Apr 30, 2013
Sue Lund lives about five blocks from where police engaged in a wild shootout April 19 with the two Boston Marathon bombing suspects and about eight doors down from where the one who escaped alive was found 18 hours later.

Yet, during the all-day manhunt, she said police never searched her Franklin Street home or garden shed in Watertown, Massachusetts. Ten other neighbors had the same story and said they didn’t know of any homes that had been searched on Franklin, where Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was discovered by someone on the street about 30 minutes after an area lockdown was lifted.

“A lot of people’s lives were put in danger because someone in charge wasn’t doing his job,” said Lund, 61, as she stood on the wide front porch of her Victorian house. “People could have been killed because after the lockdown ended everyone came streaming out of their houses and suddenly we were in a combat zone.”

It has been more than a week since police were hailed as heroes in Boston, eliciting cheers and hugs in the aftermath of the death of one suspect and capture of the other in the April 15 bombing that killed three and injured 260. As more details of the bombing and the subsequent search for Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his younger brother Dzhokhar emerge, some residents and officials are expressing skepticism about the police work.

‘Dots Connected?’

Scrutiny of the Boston bombing case isn’t limited to the hunt for the suspects. The Obama administration and Congress are reviewing whether there was an intelligence failure. Officials want to know whether better information sharing among the FBI, CIA and the Homeland Security Department could have alerted them to the danger of the suspects, or at least helped identify them after the bombing, given that the older brother was on a U.S. terror watch list. Instead, the FBI released images captured at the marathon as it sought help from the public, sparking a 20- hour wave of violence and fear that gripped the greater Boston area.

“The lesson we learned on 9-11 was the failure to connect all the dots,” said Michael Sullivan, the former U.S. Attorney for the District of Massachusetts, referring to the 2001 terrorist attacks. “The question here is: Were all the dots connected?”

Back in Watertown, a community of 30,000 people across the Charles River from the western edge of Boston, the questions are more immediate. How did hundreds of police who descended on the town fail to find a 19-year-old, who was unarmed and shot, lying under a tarp on a boat in the backyard of a house about 400 yards (366 meters) from where he had abandoned a car after fleeing the scene of the firefight?

20 Blocks

Authorities initially said Tsarnaev was found outside the 20-block area that was supposed to be subject to the most intensive part of the manhunt, including searches of the inside and outside of every house. Edward Davis, Boston’s police commissioner, last week said that in fact, the younger suspect had been found inside that zone.

David Procopio, a spokesman for the Massachusetts State Police, said it remains under investigation whether the yard and boat at 67 Franklin St. in Watertown where Tsarnaev was found had been searched earlier on April 19. He also said all the suspect’s movements from the time of the firefight until he was captured remains under investigation.

“We do not know whether he was in the boat all day,” Procopio said in an e-mail.

Watertown Lockdown

While the FBI is overseeing the bombing investigation, the search in Watertown was done under joint direction of the state police and local police with assistance from numerous other local departments, said Procopio, who declined to identify those who oversaw the search of the area.

“A very detailed action report will be completed to assess and evaluate that day’s operations,” he said.

Jason Pack, a spokesman for the FBI, which provided intelligence and agents in the manhunt, declined to comment.

The manhunt harnassed K9 units, SWAT teams, bomb squads, the air force wing of the state police and various other investigative units, according to Procopio. Before heavily armed forces scoured the area and helicopters buzzed the skies, Governor Deval Patrick ordered the lockdown across the Boston area, asking people to stay inside, and shut down the mass transit system.

The firefight where the older brother was killed left people in Watertown rattled and the lockdown trapped them in their homes in fear. Early that morning when police fired more than 200 rounds at the two suspects, and the two returned fire and threw bombs, more than a dozen bullets entered surrounding homes, according to Kathy Alpert, who lives nearby.

Boat Tarp

Still by around 6:15 p.m. on April 19, with the sun setting, Patrick lifted the lockdown even as authorities came up empty in their search. David Henneberry, who lives in the white three-story Victorian home at 67 Franklin St., went outside for some fresh air when he noticed the tarp on his boat in the backyard was loose. Then he saw blood and someone inside.

Henneberry went into his house and called police. He declined to comment when reached by Bloomberg News.

The actual capture took some time because authorities assumed the younger suspect was still armed and dangerous. SWAT teams and soldiers dressed for combat stormed down the street screaming for everyone to get inside, said Deanna Finn, who lives at one end of Franklin Street.

Something might have spooked the police, who fired 30 or more rounds and lobbed flash grenades at the boat on the trailer. The burst of bullets shredded the hull and hit neighboring houses, residents said.

‘Defenseless’ Man

“It’s awful that some defenseless, unarmed man had to find the bomber, when the people with the guns and all the protective gear couldn’t find him,” said Jaime Pepper, 27, who ran to her basement after authorities started firing.

The capture would come about an hour later, after a robot was sent in to tear off part of the tarp and an infrared scanner on a helicopter showed the suspect lying prone and motionless. Initial reports described the gunfire and grenade explosions as a firefight with a desperate fugitive. In fact, it was a one- sided shootout. Investigators didn’t recover a weapon from the boat, according to two federal law enforcement officials who asked not to be identified in discussing an active criminal probe.

Pepper said she saw police and National Guard soldiers on the road crossing Franklin, with an armored car parked near her side yard. They never came to her house, she said.

‘Our Street’

“No one disputes that the police and soldiers who searched for the bomber are heroes -- they put their lives on the line for us,” Pepper said. “I just wish they came down our street.”

Lund, the fellow Franklin Street resident, said she appreciates the hard work and bravery of the police and soldiers involved. Still, failing to search her block means someone wasn’t doing his or her job.

“With the helicopters and the Humvees and the soldiers and the police working all day to find him, all they had to do was search our street,” Lund said. “They missed the boat.”

Turdacious wrote:LOL. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get effective multi-agency cooperation in an unanticipated event?

protobuilder wrote:

Turdacious wrote:LOL. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get effective multi-agency cooperation in an unanticipated event?

I'm pretty sure that's not the point at all, Turd.

At all.

To be sure I understand, you're most concerned about the bureaucratic difficulties in stomping on the Constitution?

Terry B. wrote:
He's made his point clear - the people expected the Constitution to be stomped on so that makes it fine.

He will be entirely consistent and support banning private guns when public opinion polls eventually point to that decision as well.

(Reuters) - The number of names on a highly classified U.S. central database used to track suspected terrorists has jumped to 875,000 from 540,000 only five years ago, a U.S. official familiar with the matter said.


Maintained by the National Counterterrorism Center, the highly classified database is not a "watchlist" but instead is a repository of information on people whom U.S. authorities see as known, suspected or potential terrorists from around the world.

protobuilder wrote:

(Reuters) - The number of names on a highly classified U.S. central database used to track suspected terrorists has jumped to 875,000 from 540,000 only five years ago, a U.S. official familiar with the matter said.


Maintained by the National Counterterrorism Center, the highly classified database is not a "watchlist" but instead is a repository of information on people whom U.S. authorities see as known, suspected or potential terrorists from around the world.

Terry B. wrote:

protobuilder wrote:

(Reuters) - The number of names on a highly classified U.S. central database used to track suspected terrorists has jumped to 875,000 from 540,000 only five years ago, a U.S. official familiar with the matter said.


Maintained by the National Counterterrorism Center, the highly classified database is not a "watchlist" but instead is a repository of information on people whom U.S. authorities see as known, suspected or potential terrorists from around the world.

Come on, there are far more than 800k potential terrorists in the world.

By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled“Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centurie

The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:

Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.

Bruce Afran, a civil liberties attorney and constitutional law professor at Rutgers University, calls the rule, “a wanton power grab by the military,” and says, “It’s quite shocking actually because it violates the long-standing presumption that the military is under civilian control.”

As it is written, this “commander” has the same power to authorize military force as the president in the event the president is somehow unable to access a telephone. (The rule doesn’t address the statutory chain of authority that already exists in the event a sitting president is unavailable.) In doing so, this commander must exercise judgment in determining what constitutes, “wanton destruction of property,” “adequate protection for Federal property,” “domestic violence,” or “conspiracy that hinders the execution of State or Federal law,” as these are the circumstances that might be considered an “emergency.”

“These phrases don’t have any legal meaning,” says Afran. “It’s no different than the emergency powers clause in the Weimar constitution [of the German Reich]. It’s a grant of emergency power to the military to rule over parts of the country at their own discretion.”

Blaidd Drwg wrote:You tinfoil hat motherfuckers stand aside...people who worry about legal precedents, posse comitatus and police miosconduct are just a bunch of haters.

The Pentagon has got your back.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt

By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled“Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centuries

protobuilder wrote:Face it. At this point, he only freedom you have is the freedom they allow you to have.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:You tinfoil hat motherfuckers stand aside...people who worry about legal precedents, posse comitatus and police miosconduct are just a bunch of haters.

The Pentagon has got your back.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt

By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled“Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centurie

The most objectionable aspect of the regulatory change is the inclusion of vague language that permits military intervention in the event of “civil disturbances.” According to the rule:

Federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances.

Bruce Afran, a civil liberties attorney and constitutional law professor at Rutgers University, calls the rule, “a wanton power grab by the military,” and says, “It’s quite shocking actually because it violates the long-standing presumption that the military is under civilian control.”

As it is written, this “commander” has the same power to authorize military force as the president in the event the president is somehow unable to access a telephone. (The rule doesn’t address the statutory chain of authority that already exists in the event a sitting president is unavailable.) In doing so, this commander must exercise judgment in determining what constitutes, “wanton destruction of property,” “adequate protection for Federal property,” “domestic violence,” or “conspiracy that hinders the execution of State or Federal law,” as these are the circumstances that might be considered an “emergency.”

“These phrases don’t have any legal meaning,” says Afran. “It’s no different than the emergency powers clause in the Weimar constitution [of the German Reich]. It’s a grant of emergency power to the military to rule over parts of the country at their own discretion.”

http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/ ... to-effect/

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

protobuilder wrote:Face it. At this point, he only freedom you have is the freedom they allow you to have.

Never did....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E[/youtube]

-- Police fired nearly 300 rounds of ammunition within five to 10 minutes as they confronted the suspects -- 100 more than initially reported. And that included one round that nearly killed Massachusetts Transit Police Officer Richard Donohue. (Others bullets struck the Tsarnaev brothers, seriously injuring Dzhokhar and contributing to the death of Tamerlan.)

-- Tamerlan was the only brother armed with a handgun. The only other weapons they had were the homemade explosives that police say the brothers tossed out of the hijacked vehicle, including a few that detonated.

-- Police accidentally fired on an unoccupied black SUV during the mayhem. "In the chaos, an officer or trooper (or some combination of personnel) mistook it for one of the two suspect vehicles," David Procopio of the Massachusetts State Police told CNN.

Pinky wrote:More on the reasonable, measured response of the Boston PD here

-- Police fired nearly 300 rounds of ammunition within five to 10 minutes as they confronted the suspects -- 100 more than initially reported. And that included one round that nearly killed Massachusetts Transit Police Officer Richard Donohue. (Others bullets struck the Tsarnaev brothers, seriously injuring Dzhokhar and contributing to the death of Tamerlan.)

-- Tamerlan was the only brother armed with a handgun. The only other weapons they had were the homemade explosives that police say the brothers tossed out of the hijacked vehicle, including a few that detonated.

-- Police accidentally fired on an unoccupied black SUV during the mayhem. "In the chaos, an officer or trooper (or some combination of personnel) mistook it for one of the two suspect vehicles," David Procopio of the Massachusetts State Police told CNN.

The video at the link has more on the dangers of engaging in shootouts in residential neighborhoods. (Shockingly, some people live in houses that are not bulletproof.)