Depression and inflammation

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Blaidd Drwg
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Depression and inflammation

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Caveat:

Art De Vany is a liar, a fraud and a pathological narcissist. So, he'd probably fit right in here.

Interesting blurbage off of his site though.
Depression may no more than the firings of damaged neurons. We should first fix the neurons before we go to other methods to heal depression.

Let me see if I can convince you of this.

Cutting straight to the chase, oxidative and nitrosative stress play a role in depression. Immune system activation and inflammation contribute to depressive symptoms, including anxiety, fatigue, malaise and cognitive impairment.

Several major findings show that depression is is an inflammatory disorder

Inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-1, IL-6, tumor necrosis factor ( TNF alpha) and interferon (IFN gamma) are consistently increased in the blood or brain of depressives.
Inflammatory pathways that have recently been discovered in depression include
Activation of IDO, a tryptophan depleter
Depleted plasma tryptophan
Increased tryptophan metabolism byproducts that promote depression
Bacterial infections that activate immune cell produced inflammatory cytokines
Oxidative and nitrosative stress
Decreased synthesis of 5-HT.


The elements of the inflammatory cascade involved in depression seem to be:

Oxidative and nitrosative stress (O&NS) that causes damage to the brain membrane omega-3 fatty acids, proteins, DNA, mitochondria, and autoimmune responses.
Decreased levels of omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidants, such as coenzyme Q 10, glutathione peroxidase or zinc, increase inflammatory potential and alter the expression of receptors in the brain.


All these factors lead to neurodegeneration, neuronal apoptosis, lowered neurogenesis and neural plasticity. In short, brain neurons degenerate, die, fewer are regenerated, and the surviving neurons lack energy. The loss of neuroplasticity means you cannot learn new things because you lack the ability to form new networks in the brain.



An underlying cause of the loss of brain neurons suffered in long-term depression is the low level of brain growth factor (BDNF) that depressives show in their blood. The lack of activity in depressives is due to their mood and the low energy level of their brain cells because they lack mitochondrial density and activity. Thus, depressives are not able to engage in the vigorous activities that strongly elevate BDNF.

BDNF is lower in bipolar depression than unipolar depression and is associated with high recurrence and treatment resistance. Neurotics show low BDNF.

These factors suggest that depression is the consequence of a complex interplay between immune system action and inflammation. Depression, anxiety, neurosis, and other maladies may not be consequences of poor thought patterns or stress so much as they are brain states caused by inflammatory processes. In other words, the thoughts of depressives are damaged because their brains are damaged.


This is likely bullshit, but it's interesting bullshit.


These are physiological states not than mental states. Depressive thoughts are the consequence of the loss of brain neurons and defective brain metabolism that are engendered by inflammation

I am suggesting that depression should not be seen as a brain thinking sick thoughts, but of a sick brain thinking depressive thoughts. A depressive brain is a consequences of poor brain metabolism and physiology. These are directly treatable through diet, antioxidant supplements, and activity. Antidepressants that successfully treat depression elevate antioxidant defenses in the brain. Thus, they work by reducing oxidative and inflammatory stress in the brain, as my theory predicts.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by baffled »

I didn't read any of it, because DeVany is a loon and when he's right, it's usually on accident.

However, if he is right, I wouldn't be surprised here. My mom's got either fibromyalgia or mild to moderate RA and it seems she's been having more bad days lately since her mom's gotten closer to calling it a life.

She's a trooper, but it's tough not to be down when your brain addled mom is still mean and manipulative as fuck when she's lucid. She's not lucid very often though, which I guess is also a downer.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

It's probably bullshit.....but...

all those things which tend to reduce inflammation, get rid of nagging pain, regulate sleep and food tend to correct mild depression..IME.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Fat Cat »

Depression has biological underpinning, of which, one may be inflammation. See:

Image

I know I've mentioned this before here, but studies have shown that 30 min. cardiovascular exercise was more effective than drugs, or drugs and exercise together, to treat Major Depressive Disorder.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Turdacious »

Economics and medical research are similar in many ways. DeVany seems to have forgotten that there are many ways that they are not.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

HA!

I've told so many people they weren't really depressed, they just need to have some protein and go for a walk...for like 3 days. That usually fixes it for me.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Fat Cat »

Regular walks, proper nutrition, avoiding excess smoking and drinking, sleeping regular hours, this shit ain't rocket science but people consistently get it wrong.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by TomFurman »

Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.
true...

they should drink it.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Kazuya Mishima »

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.
true...

they should drink it.
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Sassenach »

The sleep thing is spot on. The more sleep I have before midnight, the better I feel. To paraphrase Dan John.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.
true...

they should drink it.
Protein suppositories should be made available for those with swallowing disorders.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Sua Sponte »

I've never had personal experience with anybody with real depression benefiting from more protein unless they were already pretty deficient to begin with or were in some other way grossly imbalanced. Not that I'm a personal trainer or nutritionist of any sorts, but at 51 yrs of age I've known a few people with depression. The real kind-not the American sort of depression where "I had to buy the BMW instead of the Porsche I really wanted. I'm sooooo depressed." Every single person has benefited from what FC said-30 minutes or so of moderate aerobic exercise. Brisk walking or light jogging. Hell, even a slow strolling walk. If had to guess it's because there are few better ways of reducing stress. If food played a factor it was toward the carb side of things. I know this is going to sound way the fuck out there but....some of these people started eating things like potatoes. Yeah, I know, everybody who knows everything knows potatoes are instantaneously deadlier than a Star Trek phasor but these screw ups actually said they felt better. Just like any Paleo wonk will tell you with utter certitude that those 30 minutes of aerobic exercise will only work if they're done Tabata-style, mother fucker, cause Paleo is scientific and you can't argue with science. All that Paleo shit isn't a bunch of untested, made the fuck up assumption, you know.

OK, this is turning into a rant.

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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Dan Martin »

What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Fat Cat »

Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.
shut you mouf you talk about whiskey that way
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Dan Martin »

Fat Cat wrote:
Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.
shut you mouf you talk about whiskey that way

Whiskey is the worst. Believe me when I say I found that out the hard way.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Thud »

I find a lot of depressed people have truly shitty lives. I doubt they can eat their way out of it, nor should they try.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by milosz »

Just like any Paleo wonk will tell you with utter certitude that those 30 minutes of aerobic exercise will only work if they're done Tabata-style, mother fucker
to be fair to the caveman posers, Sisson/etc. seem pretty big on light aerobic exercise, walking, etc..


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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Sua Sponte »

milosz wrote:to be fair to the caveman posers, Sisson/etc. seem pretty big on light aerobic exercise, walking, etc..
True, fair enough. I'm guilty of putting Crossfit into the same camp as Paleo, even though x-fitters claim they are Paleotologists, too.

Still, an issue with Sisson is his weekly sprint workouts. Let's leave aside for the moment that there aren't any studies showing long term health benefits of weekly sprinting-but lots to show that people under other stresses in life can burn out quite fast on them. (If eating is under reported the frequency, length and intensity of these dick-in-the-dirt workouts are just as likely over reported-I'll stop short of saying lying). How is it, exactly, that these Paleo folk came to the conclusion that weekly or any other pattern of sprinting mimics Paleo life? Just how many wild animals can people out run? Even including the mythical superhuman Paleo man. If you are in a weekly sprint-for-life exercise with wild animals the probability of you living to see anything beyond week 2 is, let's say, weak. I was also entirely unaware that wild animals chased people in 20 to 30 second bursts, broken by 10 to 30 second rest periods (very sportsmanlike of those beasts, I dare say). And why, again exactly, based upon this science, would this be long term healthy for people to do?

If we believe another of those Paleo myths, that humans are 100% genetically unchanged in the last 100,000 years, and are hence just as intelligent then as now, why didn't they pick up on the idea of, you know, an ambush? No need to get into get into pissing contests with bears and all that. No fair invoking education as a factor as that brings epigenetics into play and we're ignoring that, too.

How did Sisson decide upon his body weight regime? And the number of correct repetitions? Was that optimal to help Paleo man drag full-sized dead animals (it's not like people hunted in groups or anything, or had tools to cut up kills to be be carried back in pieces)? Clearly they never needed these other things people need in these unenlightened times to achieve Olympic level performance. I've carried heavy stuff on my back over rough terrain for many miles-I apparently was always stupid enough to try and keep it as easy as possible by not doing lots of ass to the grass squats with it. Paleo man must have known better and availed himself of the opportunity to train like a, well, Paleo man, when slinging a kill on his back and bringing it home to mama. Who was incredibly hot, of course, cause that babe was Paleo too, don't you know.
Last edited by Sua Sponte on Tue May 21, 2013 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Sua Sponte »

double post

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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Pinky »

Dan Martin wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:
Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.
shut you mouf you talk about whiskey that way
Whiskey is the worst. Believe me when I say I found that out the hard way.
I thought whiskey was supposed to be used as a sleep aid, not as pain relief.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Fat Cat »

Life enhancement
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by syaigh »

Sua Sponte wrote:
milosz wrote:to be fair to the caveman posers, Sisson/etc. seem pretty big on light aerobic exercise, walking, etc..
True, fair enough. I'm guilty of putting Crossfit into the same camp as Paleo, even though x-fitters claim they are Paleotologists, too.

Still, an issue with Sisson is his weekly sprint workouts. Let's leave aside for the moment that there aren't any studies showing long term health benefits of weekly sprinting-but lots to show that people under other stresses in life can burn out quite fast on them. (If eating is under reported the frequency, length and intensity of these dick-in-the-dirt workouts are just as likely over reported-I'll stop short of saying lying). How is it, exactly, that these Paleo folk came to the conclusion that weekly or any other pattern of sprinting mimics Paleo life? Just how many wild animals can people out run? Even including the mythical superhuman Paleo man. If you are in a weekly sprint-for-life exercise with wild animals the probability of you living to see anything beyond week 2 is, let's say, weak. I was also entirely unaware that wild animals chased people in 20 to 30 second bursts, broken by 10 to 30 second rest periods (very sportsmanlike of those beasts, I dare say). And why, again exactly, based upon this science, would this be long term healthy for people to do?

If we believe another of those Paleo myths, that humans are 100% genetically unchanged in the last 100,000 years, and are hence just as intelligent then as now, why didn't they pick up on the idea of, you know, an ambush? No need to get into get into pissing contests with bears and all that. No fair invoking education as a factor as that brings epigenetics into play and we're ignoring that, too.

How did Sisson decide upon his body weight regime? And the number of correct repetitions? Was that optimal to help Paleo man drag full-sized dead animals (it's not like people hunted in groups or anything, or had tools to cut up kills to be be carried back in pieces)? Clearly they never needed these other things people need in these unenlightened times to achieve Olympic level performance. I've carried heavy stuff on my back over rough terrain for many miles-I apparently was always stupid enough to try and keep it as easy as possible by not doing lots of ass to the grass squats with it. Paleo man must have known better and availed himself of the opportunity to train like a, well, Paleo man, when slinging a kill on his back and bringing it home to mama. Who was incredibly hot, of course, cause that babe was Paleo too, don't you know.
quit being all logical and stuff.
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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by Sua Sponte »

If you send me the link to your much touted fine ass (as reported by others more in the know) I will let you in on all my tautological gems.

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Re: Depression and inflammation

Post by syaigh »

There are no links I'm afraid. The damn thing doesn't really exist. Its much like the great white whale, only alive in the minds of those who would hunt it. But a fine metaphor for those finding enlightenment in the absurd.

On a different note, I've had to research fibromyalgia recently for a client. Found a few things that are very interesting. For years, a lot of docs thought it was a psychological condition. Mainly because it is treated with antidepressants. But, it does seem to be a dysfunction of the nervous system in that the nervous system signals that pain is present, most likely from chemical imbalances that either cause or are the result of major depressive disorder. Thing is, exercise and strength training have been shown to mitigate the pain symptoms.
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