IGX

http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein ... -red-flags

The following 28 books all have significant merits, otherwise they wouldn’t be as successful and beloved as they are.
They are also indicative of deep and abiding potential character flaws in you and your loved ones. Here’s what you need to know to stay safe.

Agree with all of them, even for the ones I like.

could you just find the original thread on reddit?

Reddit is a red flag.

What book is not a red flag by these standards? Out of curiosity.

Surprised that there's no Hemingway on there.

I only looked at the top 5...where does the Turner Diaries come in? Or is that without indicator of character flaw?

Meh. I read a lot of these because I read a lot of the (shorter) books on the top 100 of the century list that came out a few years ago.

Gatsby-- good, but not a favorite
Catcher in the Rye-- inspired whackjobs with three names to kill people, overrated book. Does anyone over 30 call this a favorite?
Stranger-- Camus was about the only existentialist who was worth a shit as a writer or a human being. Not his best book, but not bad.
On the Road-- shit romance novel
Ayn Rand-- they called that one right.
Exodus-- is that really on anyone's favorite list? Uris wrote solid historical adventure novels.
Pride and Prejudice-- I don't like light romance novels, no matter how well written-- that's just me. But if you're gonna read one, read this one.
Narnia books-- fuck the hipster who wrote that article. Solid fantasy novels, great for kids and still fun light reading for adults. Bernstein wishes he could write 1/10th as well as Lewis.
Lolita-- not bad, but not Nabakov's best. About as accessible as Russian literature gets.
Finnegan's Wake-- Ulysses was painful enough, fuck that one.

Infinite Jest was the most spot on. Everyone I know who gives half a shit about DF Wallace is a pretentious humanities major; as a pretentious former humanities major, those people are assholes.

Turdacious wrote: Stranger-- Camus was about the only existentialist who was worth a shit as a writer or a human being. Not his best book, but not bad.

Well, The Cure wrote a song about it . . . uh . . . nevermind.

Although I have to say, it was one of the easier books to digest in my intro to ethics class. Jerzy Kozinski's Painted Bird was like swallowing a ball of barbed wire.

First read Camus in my AP English class senior year, always thought that was a fucked up time to introduce someone to the meaninglessness of existence.

milosz wrote:First read Camus in my AP English class senior year, always thought that was a fucked up time to introduce someone to the meaninglessness of existence.

Except Camus didn't believe that. He shouldn't be taught at a high school level.

My wife fond of Twilight. And Jacob :)

Turdacious wrote:Except Camus didn't believe that. He shouldn't be taught at a high school level.

Even if relevant (a writer's fictional work and a writer's personal beliefs are separate issues), to say that Camus didn't believe existence was meaningless in and of itself is wrong. Camus's work is often explicitly about how to proceed with life despite the formlessness and lack of meaning, without giving into Meursault-esque nihilism.

I was joking about the introduction of existentialism to people about to encounter the greatest shift in their life to that point, but Camus and the other usual suspects of senior level AP/IB/honors are important. Often it's the first time students about to enter college will encounter major modern works instead of a steady diet of Dickens, Hawthorne, Twain, Shakespeare and lesser modern work (Catcher in the fucking Rye).

milosz wrote:Even if relevant (a writer's fictional work and a writer's personal beliefs are separate issues), to say that Camus didn't believe existence was meaningless in and of itself is wrong. Camus's work is often explicitly about how to proceed with life despite the formlessness and lack of meaning, without giving into Meursault-esque nihilism.

Except that isn't right either. Meursault's mother is the other central character of The Stranger-- her life was not presented as meaningless.

Camus was heavily influenced by Augustinian ideas, especially the idea of the pointlessness of secular life-- an idea that dominates most of his work. Meanwhile he spent time trying to find a philosophy that gave answers, rejecting those philosophies and criticized many of them in hiis work. Searching for meaning without taking shortcuts in the face of uncertainty and absurdity was the overwhelming theme of his earlier work-- that Sisyphus' task wasn't pointless.

The First Man, probably his best work, has love as it's major theme, something he does not present as meaningless.

The First Man, probably his best work, has love as it's major theme, something he does not present as meaningless.

Why would he? None of the existentialists, much less Camus (the most humanistic), portray human action or emotion as meaningless.

Perhaps you have a fundamentally different definition of "meaningless" - early Camus is explicit that life has no inherent meaning. Later, after he got away from writing about the absurd, Camus remains of this opinion.

I mean - "[m]eanwhile he spent time trying to find a philosophy that gave answers, rejecting those philosophies and criticized many of them in hiis work." That doesn't contradict anything I've said or Camus's stance on meaning. It is precisely because the universe is cold that we (and Camus) have to do this.

Wild Bill wrote:My wife fond of Twilight. And Jacob :)

Oh no Bill, I hope you can straighten her out. You don't really want her to turn into some American tween do you? Does she like that Bieber fag too?

Crust Bucket wrote:

Wild Bill wrote:My wife fond of Twilight. And Jacob :)

Oh no Bill, I hope you can straighten her out.

I was enforced to went with her to cinema to watch 4th and 5th parts.

Crust Bucket wrote: Does she like that Bieber fag too?

I never heard such name, so hope she also dosen't know him.

Wild Bill wrote:

Crust Bucket wrote: Does she like that Bieber fag too?

I never heard such name, so hope she also dosen't know him.

LOL!

I asked her... so, i was mistaken.
She knows who he is, and even know who is his girlfriend
But she says she is not a fan of him :)

milosz wrote:

The First Man, probably his best work, has love as it's major theme, something he does not present as meaningless.

Why would he? None of the existentialists, much less Camus (the most humanistic), portray human action or emotion as meaningless.

Perhaps you have a fundamentally different definition of "meaningless" - early Camus is explicit that life has no inherent meaning.

Except that he viewed it as good.
The last line of Sisyphus: "The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
In The Stranger, the main character is contrasted by characters whose lives do have meaning-- Maman, Marie, his boss, the guy he killed...

Others see life as having meaning, Camus doesn't denigrate them for that. He is searching for meaning, and never tries to romanticize his main characters

milosz wrote:I mean - "[m]eanwhile he spent time trying to find a philosophy that gave answers, rejecting those philosophies and criticized many of them in hiis work." That doesn't contradict anything I've said or Camus's stance on meaning. It is precisely because the universe is cold that we (and Camus) have to do this.

Only if you look at him in a postmodern sense. If you look at him in the context of similar (and better) writers that came before him-- Augustine, Cervantes, Pascal, Voltaire, Swift, and Dostoyevsky-- his meaning becomes more clear. He has more in common with any of the other French existentialists, who were almost universally pieces of shit.

Turdacious wrote:Except that he viewed it as good.

Not 'good' but as an opportunity (or a requirement) - I talked about that: 'Camus's work is often explicitly about how to proceed with life despite the formlessness and lack of meaning, without giving into Meursault-esque nihilism.'

The last line of Sisyphus: "The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
In The Stranger, the main character is contrasted by characters whose lives do have meaning-- Maman, Marie, his boss, the guy he killed...

Others see life as having meaning, Camus doesn't denigrate them for that. He is searching for meaning, and never tries to romanticize his main characters

Again, an author's fiction may or may not mirror his personal philosophy. That Camus is not a brutal nihilist does not mean the takeaway from L'etranger changes.

Of course, it's irrelevant because Camus did believe existence was meaningless, as you now agree. Looking on that in a (potentially) positive light doesn't change the meaninglessness.