Hey! I read my phone while taking dumps!ccrow wrote:Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ. Not directed at you Drew, just this lemminglike belief that helmets don't make things safer. Padding things works. It's a pretty well established practice. It takes about sixth grade understanding of physics to see how it protects the contents. Acceleration is the enemy of eggs in your shopping bag, and the brain inside the skull. Padding / helments absorbs some of the energy and the contents are subjected to less sharp acceleration. If you wrap the eggs in bubble wrap, yep, ultimately they still have to decelerate to a stop when the package hits the ground, but surprise, they are less likely to break when they hit the ground. Lets consider an experiment. One man is a reasonable, low tech, common sense kind of guy, wearing a helmet. The other is a guy who reads as much as possible online, even reads on his phone when he takes a dump! and doesn't believe in helmets since the real villain is this mysterious "acceleration" thing. These two men lock up and head butt each other until one has a concussion. Do you really think this contest is too close to call? Do you really believe the odds are about even, the helmet won't help? For fucks sake.Drew0786 wrote:The problem is no matter how much padding you wrap around the head nothing on the outside of the helmet is going to prevent the brain from moving around inside the head, which is what really causes a concussion.
The end of football?
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Re: The end of football?
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


Re: The end of football?
BOOMBucketHead wrote:ccrow literally has a 4th grade grasp on physics.
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


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Re: The end of football?
Here's one of those lemmings:
But who is this Kevin guy. Sounds like a pussy that doesn't know football:
http://www.athleticbusiness.com/article ... &zoneid=46But, as noted helmet expert Kevin Guskiewicz, founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill says, helmets can only do so much. "Helmets are not designed to prevent concussion," he told attendees of a Marietta, Ohio, sports concussion symposium in July. "Companies are building good helmets that can prevent structural head injuries, but concussion is a functional, not a structural, injury."
But who is this Kevin guy. Sounds like a pussy that doesn't know football:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/s ... 51337506/1•Kenan distinguished professor and chairman in the Department of Exercise & Sport Science and athletic trainer.
•Research director of the Center for the Study of Retired Athletes and founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center.
•A former athletic trainer for the Pittsburgh Steelers
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Re: The end of football?
BucketHead wrote:Here's one of those lemmings:
http://www.athleticbusiness.com/article ... &zoneid=46But, as noted helmet expert Kevin Guskiewicz, founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill says, helmets can only do so much. "Helmets are not designed to prevent concussion," he told attendees of a Marietta, Ohio, sports concussion symposium in July. "Companies are building good helmets that can prevent structural head injuries, but concussion is a functional, not a structural, injury."
But who is this Kevin guy. Sounds like a pussy that doesn't know football:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/s ... 51337506/1•Kenan distinguished professor and chairman in the Department of Exercise & Sport Science and athletic trainer.
•Research director of the Center for the Study of Retired Athletes and founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center.
•A former athletic trainer for the Pittsburgh Steelers
I have a friend who's son experienced a very serious concussion in late August / early September from a helmet to helmet hit that was seen by this guy. He has just been cleared to play again.
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Re: The end of football?
I have thought about the lessons learned and character built, etc. that DDL speaks of and I have wondered about if not letting my son play football will he miss out on these lessons. Then I remember of playing football from 8th grade all through high school and starting the last 3 years as well as being all-conference and while I had fun and learned teamwork, etc. I don't think it had a huge impact on me as far as developing my character and who I am today. Plus, you can learn the same thing from other sports.DrDonkeyLove wrote:I went to a Jr. HS football game yesterday afternoon sensitized to this subject. I'd read the article and while it may not be as conclusive as the BU researchers think, it's a serious situation and BU is a respected institution.nafod wrote:In the Frontline episode, they talked about two football players that they autopsied. One was 21 and played in college, and the other was 18 and had just played high school football. Also...DrDonkeyLove wrote:Conflating brain injuries in retired pro footballers vs. kids today isn't exactly an accurate comparison. The pros have been playing at the highest levels for 10-20 years including college while kids don't have nearly that time invested in the game.
Also, when today's pros were coming up, mild concussions were essentially ignored. At least in Pop Warner, coaches and medics are trained and highly sensitized about head trauma. A kid who shows signs of a the most minor concussion is not allowed to practice with contact or play until he receives approval from his doctor. In the two minor concussions I've been associated with, that was at around 10 days to two weeks. Healing time is apparently very important in these injuries.
Additionally teams are weight and age controlled so the chances of a rabbit getting run over by a bus are remote. This isn't necessarily true in school football. My 13 y.o. 5' tall & 110# grandson plays with a kid that is 6'-4" and 220 lbs (also 13 y.o. BTW)
According to the study, the BU researchers now have 50 confirmed cases of former football players with CTE — 33 who played in the NFL, one in the CFL, one semi-professionally, nine through college and six who played only through high school.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... l-players/
I saw two hits of consequence. One resulted in the wind being knocked out of one kid and the other ended up with a knee problem, but the hits were hard enough that there could have been some unnoticed head trauma.
I also saw two groups of boys doing what boys love to do: hitting, smashing, running, overpowering a foe, and working as a team. Things they've been doing since our ancestors came down from the trees and started walking upright across the savannah. My grandson hasn't hit his growth spurt so he's second team and only got a few plays. In those plays he recovered a fumble, drew a penalty from the offense as he was about to tackle the ball carrier, and got a 1/2 sack. I was sitting at the top of the stands but I could see a physical change in his countenance from there.
After the game, which they won handily, one of the coaches reportedly made a comment that they would have won by even more if they didn't have to put in the "scrubs", of which my grandson is one. That comment meant very little to him because he knew what he'd accomplished. That's a confidence and character builder in every way. After the game, he could have received a ride directly home but he wanted to be on the bus with his team.
We can't have kids with oatmeal where their brains were and safety has to be a super high priority so thank G_d for the BU study. Regardless of where the studies take us, kids football on a beautiful autumn afternoon is an awesome thing - and, it's somehow important. I hope it's not another one of America's great traditions that gets watered down to nothing or lost.
I would say I learned more impacting character building skills from working different jobs growing up. Especially manual labor jobs on job sites.
Well, one important thing I can say I learned from football as well as basketball and a few other sports is working really hard and not giving up.
Re: The end of football?
Oh I am very sorry if I am not a physicist, I am no Sir Isaac Hayes! So please, explain it in terms I can understand. Given the head is going to get knocked around about the same with or without a helmet on, how is it better without the helmet?
Professor, from where I am sitting, it doesn't sound like your boy said football is safer without helments, he said it's dangerous even with helmets.Einstein wrote:But, as noted helmet expert Kevin Guskiewicz, founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill says, helmets can only do so much"
But when I stand in front of the mirror and really look, I wonder: What the fuck happened here? Jesus Christ. What a beating!
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Re: The end of football?
One thing I didn't mention that I got from football and sports in general was the camaraderie.Mickey O'neil wrote:I have thought about the lessons learned and character built, etc. that DDL speaks of and I have wondered about if not letting my son play football will he miss out on these lessons. Then I remember of playing football from 8th grade all through high school and starting the last 3 years as well as being all-conference and while I had fun and learned teamwork, etc. I don't think it had a huge impact on me as far as developing my character and who I am today. Plus, you can learn the same thing from other sports.DrDonkeyLove wrote:I went to a Jr. HS football game yesterday afternoon sensitized to this subject. I'd read the article and while it may not be as conclusive as the BU researchers think, it's a serious situation and BU is a respected institution.nafod wrote:In the Frontline episode, they talked about two football players that they autopsied. One was 21 and played in college, and the other was 18 and had just played high school football. Also...DrDonkeyLove wrote:Conflating brain injuries in retired pro footballers vs. kids today isn't exactly an accurate comparison. The pros have been playing at the highest levels for 10-20 years including college while kids don't have nearly that time invested in the game.
Also, when today's pros were coming up, mild concussions were essentially ignored. At least in Pop Warner, coaches and medics are trained and highly sensitized about head trauma. A kid who shows signs of a the most minor concussion is not allowed to practice with contact or play until he receives approval from his doctor. In the two minor concussions I've been associated with, that was at around 10 days to two weeks. Healing time is apparently very important in these injuries.
Additionally teams are weight and age controlled so the chances of a rabbit getting run over by a bus are remote. This isn't necessarily true in school football. My 13 y.o. 5' tall & 110# grandson plays with a kid that is 6'-4" and 220 lbs (also 13 y.o. BTW)
According to the study, the BU researchers now have 50 confirmed cases of former football players with CTE — 33 who played in the NFL, one in the CFL, one semi-professionally, nine through college and six who played only through high school.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... l-players/
I saw two hits of consequence. One resulted in the wind being knocked out of one kid and the other ended up with a knee problem, but the hits were hard enough that there could have been some unnoticed head trauma.
I also saw two groups of boys doing what boys love to do: hitting, smashing, running, overpowering a foe, and working as a team. Things they've been doing since our ancestors came down from the trees and started walking upright across the savannah. My grandson hasn't hit his growth spurt so he's second team and only got a few plays. In those plays he recovered a fumble, drew a penalty from the offense as he was about to tackle the ball carrier, and got a 1/2 sack. I was sitting at the top of the stands but I could see a physical change in his countenance from there.
After the game, which they won handily, one of the coaches reportedly made a comment that they would have won by even more if they didn't have to put in the "scrubs", of which my grandson is one. That comment meant very little to him because he knew what he'd accomplished. That's a confidence and character builder in every way. After the game, he could have received a ride directly home but he wanted to be on the bus with his team.
We can't have kids with oatmeal where their brains were and safety has to be a super high priority so thank G_d for the BU study. Regardless of where the studies take us, kids football on a beautiful autumn afternoon is an awesome thing - and, it's somehow important. I hope it's not another one of America's great traditions that gets watered down to nothing or lost.
I would say I learned more impacting character building skills from working different jobs growing up. Especially manual labor jobs on job sites.
Well, one important thing I can say I learned from football as well as basketball and a few other sports is working really hard and not giving up.
Re: The end of football?
Get the fuck out. What do you do with the phone while you wipe your ass? You don't want to put your phone on the floor or the sink. Or do you? Do you have to wash your hands one at a time? How do you decide which one first, and, what is the sound of one hand washing? Do you ever look at pictures of blueberries on your phone if you're having trouble getting the party started?protobuilder wrote:Hey! I read my phone while taking dumps!
But when I stand in front of the mirror and really look, I wonder: What the fuck happened here? Jesus Christ. What a beating!
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Re: The end of football?
i would challenge the statement "the head is going to get knocked around the same with or without"ccrow wrote: Given the head is going to get knocked around about the same with or without a helmet on, how is it better without the helmet?
modern helmets encourage direct contact with the head moreso than when helmets were less advanced
my brother's first helmet was leather/i was the first kid in my school to have a face "mask"--a single bar that was supposed to prevent me from getting whacked in the nose which tended to bleed prodigiously/with less protection one tended not propel oneself rocketlike head first in an opponent
(ice hockey has seen the same escalation in helmet design--it too now seems focused on preventing contact with the head something that was no considered back when i played/the two times i got knocked out playing hockey it was from hitting the ice with my head/ obviously it didn't affect me because i can still spell as well as darth)
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Re: The end of football?
Imagine you're xraying Wes Welker as he's hauling ass across the middle to catch a Manning pass. You see his brain, a gap, then his skull, then the helmet padding/shell, all moving at the same velocity.ccrow wrote:Oh I am very sorry if I am not a physicist, I am no Sir Isaac Hayes! So please, explain it in terms I can understand. Given the head is going to get knocked around about the same with or without a helmet on, how is it better without the helmet?
Professor, from where I am sitting, it doesn't sound like your boy said football is safer without helments, he said it's dangerous even with helmets.Einstein wrote:But, as noted helmet expert Kevin Guskiewicz, founding director of the Matthew Gfeller Sport-Related Traumatic Brain Injury Research Center at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill says, helmets can only do so much"
In slow motion, he catches the pass and gets absolutely drilled right in the noggin by a defensive back going just under the speed of sound. Let's just say the DB's shoulder impacts Welker's head. Welker goes from very fast to zero mph in a fraction of a second.
While you're watching the X-ray, you'll see the skull compress the helmet's padding into the helmet's shell, but you'll also see Welker's brain impact his skull. The padding, no matter what composition, thickness, etc... won't do much to slow the brains impact to the skull. That problem can only really be solved by lowering the deceleration.
So, if no one was wearing helmets, the DB may not have the balls to ram so hard into Welker, thus lowering the deceleration (but not eliminating it!)
However, putting unbelievable pads on these genetic freaks most certainly does INCREASE the acceleration/deceleration forces which could make the concussion problem even worse.
So, look for arguments that lower the deceleration on the skull (proper hitting, no helmet-helmet, etc...). Less padding MAY help lower deceleration because it would hurt more.
Re: The end of football?
Actual Wes Walker x-rayBucketHead wrote:Imagine you're xraying Wes Welker as he's hauling ass across the middle to catch a Manning pass. You see his brain, a gap, then his skull, then the helmet padding/shell, all moving at the same velocity.

Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: The end of football?
I put it in the little sling created by my underwares when they're down around my ankles.ccrow wrote:Get the fuck out. What do you do with the phone while you wipe your ass? You don't want to put your phone on the floor or the sink. Or do you?protobuilder wrote:Hey! I read my phone while taking dumps!
"Know that! & Know it deep you fucking loser!"


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Re: The end of football?
Scientitically safer?


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Re: The end of football?
Avoiding blood, which turns off the female demographic, is far more important to those sports than preventing concussions.dead man walking wrote:i would challenge the statement "the head is going to get knocked around the same with or without"ccrow wrote: Given the head is going to get knocked around about the same with or without a helmet on, how is it better without the helmet?
modern helmets encourage direct contact with the head moreso than when helmets were less advanced
my brother's first helmet was leather/i was the first kid in my school to have a face "mask"--a single bar that was supposed to prevent me from getting whacked in the nose which tended to bleed prodigiously/with less protection one tended not propel oneself rocketlike head first in an opponent
(ice hockey has seen the same escalation in helmet design--it too now seems focused on preventing contact with the head something that was no considered back when i played/the two times i got knocked out playing hockey it was from hitting the ice with my head/ obviously it didn't affect me because i can still spell as well as darth)
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Re: The end of football?
Would an internal helmet between the brain and skull work?
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Re: The end of football?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
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Re: The end of football?
The biggest problem with the NFL, one that affects nearly all of us, is brushed over in that article as it is everywhere else. The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies. You won't find an economist anywhere, except for the few who failed their way into the worst kind of consulting, who will tell you those subsidies are justified. These teams are stealing from taxpayers.dead man walking wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
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Re: The end of football?
Yeah, I forgot about this. Insane. FUCK THE NFL!!!!!!!Pinky wrote:The biggest problem with the NFL, one that affects nearly all of us, is brushed over in that article as it is everywhere else. The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies. You won't find an economist anywhere, except for the few who failed their way into the worst kind of consulting, who will tell you those subsidies are justified. These teams are stealing from taxpayers.dead man walking wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
Re: The end of football?
In return the NFL gives life meaning.Pinky wrote:The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies.

Don’t believe everything you think.
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Re: The end of football?
the subsidies are ok because they benefit rich guys who own the teams not kettlebell instructors or box-store employees earning minimum wage
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Re: The end of football?
But there are "studies" to prove that these subsidies are a huge net plus for the community. Besides, pride in your local team owned by billionaires and populated by multimillionaires is priceless. Of course many of these games are almost exclusively being watched by the wealthy because it's easy to drop $500-$1,000 to bring the kids, but there's TV's available for the rest of us.Pinky wrote:The biggest problem with the NFL, one that affects nearly all of us, is brushed over in that article as it is everywhere else. The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies. You won't find an economist anywhere, except for the few who failed their way into the worst kind of consulting, who will tell you those subsidies are justified. These teams are stealing from taxpayers.dead man walking wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party
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Re: The end of football?
And and the money paid for contracts to broadcast these sports, NFL in particular, drives up our cable bills.DrDonkeyLove wrote:But there are "studies" to prove that these subsidies are a huge net plus for the community. Besides, pride in your local team owned by billionaires and populated by multimillionaires is priceless. Of course many of these games are almost exclusively being watched by the wealthy because it's easy to drop $500-$1,000 to bring the kids, but there's TV's available for the rest of us.Pinky wrote:The biggest problem with the NFL, one that affects nearly all of us, is brushed over in that article as it is everywhere else. The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies. You won't find an economist anywhere, except for the few who failed their way into the worst kind of consulting, who will tell you those subsidies are justified. These teams are stealing from taxpayers.dead man walking wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
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Re: The end of football?
How much you pay depends on where you live. The ability to diversity revenue (NCAA games, other sports, concerts, etc...) is also important. You probably get the benefits of watching the local NFL team for next to nothing. If you lived in Buffalo, it would be a different story.Mickey O'neil wrote:Yeah, I forgot about this. Insane. FUCK THE NFL!!!!!!!Pinky wrote:The biggest problem with the NFL, one that affects nearly all of us, is brushed over in that article as it is everywhere else. The NFL receives billions of dollars in subsidies. You won't find an economist anywhere, except for the few who failed their way into the worst kind of consulting, who will tell you those subsidies are justified. These teams are stealing from taxpayers.dead man walking wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/12/opini ... h_20131012In the fall of 1905, at least 18 players died during or immediately after football games — and there were far fewer contests than now.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/0 ... llk-xDhA98
Without bells and whistles, stadiums aren't necessarily that expensive. Bonds to cover sports stadiums also cover for a lot of other projects and patronage in other areas.
In your area, you're more likely getting bent over by minor league baseball related taxes than NFL ones.
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Re: The end of football?
turd
how do you know that shit?
not that i doubt you--i'm curious
how do you know that shit?
not that i doubt you--i'm curious
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Re: The end of football?
Used to live in the same state as the Mickster, and I have a generalist background in public finance.dead man walking wrote:turd
how do you know that shit?
not that i doubt you--i'm curious
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule