IGX

Smet wrote:Why there is such a strong resistance to Obamacare? I would think that universal healthcare cover for the whole population is a good idea, yet it doesn't seem to be accepted by large part of the USA. Not being a US resident I probably don't know something, so I'm just curious: why?

Extreme political polarization. When you describe the features, but don't call it Obamacare, people approve of it much more highly. If a moderate Republican were putting together health care reform even 7 years ago (one did) it would look very similar.

You guys are being too hard on the government.
It isn't like they had any working models to base universal healthcare on.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Fuck off Turd. If short term you mean since 9/11 and indefinitely into the future

War is a function of the Federal government, if you want government involved in your health care past safety regulations and such, then look to your state for it, not the Feds.

Never happen in your new state, you moved to America, real America.

DARTH wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Fuck off Turd. If short term you mean since 9/11 and indefinitely into the future

War is a function of the Federal government, if you want government involved in your health care past safety regulations and such, then look to your state for it, not the Feds.

Never happen in your new state, you moved to America, real America.

Wait, so safety regulations are OK? Under the commerce clause, I presume? Just checking.

War is a tool of the government, and the government is the tool of the Republic. What's going on now is welfare for the military-industrial complex, it's not war. It's not securing anything of value for the Republic, but it sure as fuck is making a small number of people rich beyond their wildest dreams on the blood of American soldiers.

I like Texas for a number of reasons, but when a Texan talks about small government, they are really talking about how shitty the state government is at actually doing shit the state government should be doing, and, in a microcosm of the above statement, they are making a certain number of individuals rich at the expense of the Texas taxpayer.

It's really pretty astonishing at how quickly a thread can go to absolute shit around here.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Smet wrote:Why there is such a strong resistance to Obamacare? I would think that universal healthcare cover for the whole population is a good idea, yet it doesn't seem to be accepted by large part of the USA. Not being a US resident I probably don't know something, so I'm just curious: why?

Extreme political polarization. When you describe the features, but don't call it Obamacare, people approve of it much more highly. If a moderate Republican were putting together health care reform even 7 years ago (one did) it would look very similar.

Nobody likes Obamacare, even the supporters-- they will only like it if it delivers positive results. Obamacare is too new to demonstrate results in some areas; and has been too poorly implemented to deliver shorter term results. That's a charitable view.

John Roberts a Bush appointee is the biggest traitor to the US since Benedict Arnold calling it a tax.

When has government running anything led to success? Massive bureaucracy.

Here is where the bullshit of this entitlement comes in.

1. Because everyone needs coverage, insurance companies are jacking their prices up. I'm paying $50 more a month for shitty insurance with a $3000 deductible.
2. Doctors won't accept it, they'll go private. There will be a huge demand for doctors that will accept it, long lines impossible to see your doctor. The ones who won't accept it will jack their prices up astronomically.

All because of fucking do-gooders.

BFly wrote:John Roberts a Bush appointee is the biggest traitor to the US since Benedict Arnold calling it a tax.

When has government running anything led to success? Massive bureaucracy.

Here is where the bullshit of this entitlement comes in.

1. Because everyone needs coverage, insurance companies are jacking their prices up. I'm paying $50 more a month for shitty insurance with a $3000 deductible.
2. Doctors won't accept it, they'll go private. There will be a huge demand for doctors that will accept it, long lines impossible to see your doctor. The ones who won't accept it will jack their prices up astronomically.

All because of fucking do-gooders.

So what if the government offloads the exchanges? Lets the Orbitz/Travelocity/amazon model take hold, and let consumers pick on both the product and ease of use in getting the product. i can buy the same thing a hundred different ways off the internet. How much is being run by the government then? Still private insurance. Still private docs and hospitals. Still private pharma. The government regulates, not runs.

Your shitty deductible makes you a consumer that evaluates on price. Some brilliant businessman is going to realize any dumb doc can put in stitches, and advertise the cheapest stitches in town and get all the business. Or some other business where cost is right up front. Then we are off to the lower health care cost races.

Fuck the docs anyway (IGX docs excepted). Most of the care can be done by PAs and nurses with years and years of experience, as opposed to Doogie Howser.

nafod wrote:

BFly wrote:John Roberts a Bush appointee is the biggest traitor to the US since Benedict Arnold calling it a tax.

When has government running anything led to success? Massive bureaucracy.

Here is where the bullshit of this entitlement comes in.

1. Because everyone needs coverage, insurance companies are jacking their prices up. I'm paying $50 more a month for shitty insurance with a $3000 deductible.
2. Doctors won't accept it, they'll go private. There will be a huge demand for doctors that will accept it, long lines impossible to see your doctor. The ones who won't accept it will jack their prices up astronomically.

All because of fucking do-gooders.

So what if the government offloads the exchanges? Lets the Orbitz/Travelocity/amazon model take hold, and let consumers pick on both the product and ease of use in getting the product. i can buy the same thing a hundred different ways off the internet. How much is being run by the government then? Still private insurance. Still private docs and hospitals. Still private pharma. The government regulates, not runs.

Your shitty deductible makes you a consumer that evaluates on price. Some brilliant businessman is going to realize any dumb doc can put in stitches, and advertise the cheapest stitches in town and get all the business. Or some other business where cost is right up front. Then we are off to the lower health care cost races.

Fuck the docs anyway (IGX docs excepted). Most of the care can be done by PAs and nurses with years and years of experience, as opposed to Doogie Howser.

1. In general, doctors do not compete on price. Never have, except for elective surgeries. Rules like the birth control mandate suggest that the administration is not going to allow price competition to happen anyway.
2. You are assuming equality of knowledge. Docs have a big advantage.
3. There are rules regarding who can do what. Big special interests involved. Changing those rules is not something that Obamacare is likely to do in the near future. There are easier, and better, ways to alleviate the doctor shortage.
4. Medicaid and Medicare are major players. Substandard care is a growing risk for people who use these subsidized insurance programs. Increasing inequality of care is a big risk with Obamacare, and it's likely to get worse if current trends continue.

Want to make serious changes?
1. Increase the doctor supply.
2. Reduce costs of practicing medicine (through some sort of tort reform or improved best practices)
3. Reduce defensive medicine
4. Go Bloomberg on SNAP.
5. Reduce the cross subsidization in medicine.
6. Remove sugar and sugar substitute subsidies.

nafod wrote:

BFly wrote:John Roberts a Bush appointee is the biggest traitor to the US since Benedict Arnold calling it a tax.

When has government running anything led to success? Massive bureaucracy.

Here is where the bullshit of this entitlement comes in.

1. Because everyone needs coverage, insurance companies are jacking their prices up. I'm paying $50 more a month for shitty insurance with a $3000 deductible.
2. Doctors won't accept it, they'll go private. There will be a huge demand for doctors that will accept it, long lines impossible to see your doctor. The ones who won't accept it will jack their prices up astronomically.

All because of fucking do-gooders.

So what if the government offloads the exchanges? Lets the Orbitz/Travelocity/amazon model take hold, and let consumers pick on both the product and ease of use in getting the product. i can buy the same thing a hundred different ways off the internet. How much is being run by the government then? Still private insurance. Still private docs and hospitals. Still private pharma. The government regulates, not runs.

Your shitty deductible makes you a consumer that evaluates on price. Some brilliant businessman is going to realize any dumb doc can put in stitches, and advertise the cheapest stitches in town and get all the business. Or some other business where cost is right up front. Then we are off to the lower health care cost races.

Fuck the docs anyway (IGX docs excepted). Most of the care can be done by PAs and nurses with years and years of experience, as opposed to Doogie Howser.

My shitty deductible is what my company provides for health insurance. It still sucks. I agree with the last paragraph as my mother was a nurse practitioner.

Turdacious, I 100% agree with your 4th point about inequality. Obamacare will make an even more unlevel playing field.

Also, if it's so great the legislature should be using it. Harry Reid and other Democratic hypocrite senators are exempting their staff from Obamacare. Unbelievable

Bud Charniga's gaping asshole wrote:

DARTH wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Fuck off Turd. If short term you mean since 9/11 and indefinitely into the future

War is a function of the Federal government, if you want government involved in your health care past safety regulations and such, then look to your state for it, not the Feds.

Never happen in your new state, you moved to America, real America.

Wait, so safety regulations are OK? Under the commerce clause, I presume? Just checking.

It's what "Promote the general welfare" means, looking out for not giving and wiping asses.

All you need is a good prescribing NP and a veterinarian for stitches and staples.

^^^This.

Why I favor Medical Savings Accounts + catastrophic health insurance. And let the NP's & Vets chip away at the MD healthcare monopoly.

johno wrote:^^^This.

Why I favor Medical Savings Accounts + catastrophic health insurance. And let the NP's & Vets chip away at the MD healthcare monopoly.

Ditto

My MIL is on day 115 in the hospital after her outpatient endoscope procedure. My up close & personal view of the #1 hospital in the country has left me with a (even more) jaundiced view of the health care system.