So, Rolling Stone...

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Blaidd Drwg
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Be fair Turd, it's not like a big surprise on either side...racial profiling works and it's unfair.

Somehow we need to get to where we treat the subject where individuals are treated with respect for their rights while living in the reality that there are pretty significant cultural realities at play.....groups of young men are fcking predators....give them rope and they will run. We are all men here, you telling me you don't remember that time? I don't think this is remotely a class or face issue, this is the type of shit that the 17 to 23 age cohort gets up to.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:Be fair Turd, it's not like a big surprise on either side...racial profiling works and it's unfair.

Somehow we need to get to where we treat the subject where individuals are treated with respect for their rights while living in the reality that there are pretty significant cultural realities at play.....groups of young men are fcking predators....give them rope and they will run. We are all men here, you telling me you don't remember that time? I don't think this is remotely a class or face issue, this is the type of shit that the 17 to 23 age cohort gets up to.
I was responding to this ridiculous oversimplification:
The Ginger Beard Man wrote:Just don't act as if these are poor choir boys being accused for no reason at all.
It is entirely possible that this chick made everything else; it's possible that she overdramatized an actual rape. Bottom lines-- her story doesn't hold water, and innocent until proven guilty.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Innocence and guilt are legal constructs....afaik, the RS people n question may not even be real. The Duke players were innocent in the eyes of the court. Innocent in the eyes of the public at large, media etc is a windmill you're gonna have a hard time tilting...and ultimately no one wins the spin game.

Like I said before, what you take away from the storyline says more about what you brought with you than the actual storyline says.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:Like I said before, what you take away from the storyline says more about what you brought with you than the actual storyline says.
That our media is sensationalistic, lazy, and biased? You got me there.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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In your case, I think you're being semi-even handed. In syaigh's case I think she's reasonably skeptical of both the media shitstorm RS started and the speed of the similarly sensational blow back that's not asking any of the right questions.

Fact is, like everything else, sides get drawn up regardless of the facts and pretty much everyone is relying on anti-information to support their position.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Turdacious wrote: That our media is sensationalistic, lazy, and biased? You got me there.
that is a lazy and prejudiced observation.

the reason you know the rolling stone story is bs is because journalists did the work of breaking it down
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Turdacious »

dead man walking wrote:
Turdacious wrote: That our media is sensationalistic, lazy, and biased? You got me there.
that is a lazy and prejudiced observation.

the reason you know the rolling stone story is bs is because journalists did the work of breaking it down
Or maybe because I live in a part of the country where there are a lot of UVA alums.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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what is it like living among all those rapists?
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by TerryB »

My takeaway from this whole thing is, women should not be allowed to attend college.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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It's too long to quote all the important parts, but this is big: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... ingtonpost
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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T>1200 wrote:My takeaway from this whole thing is, women should not be allowed to attend college.
Pretty rapey comment, here.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Protobuilder »

Turdacious wrote:
dead man walking wrote:
Turdacious wrote: That our media is sensationalistic, lazy, and biased? You got me there.
that is a lazy and prejudiced observation.

the reason you know the rolling stone story is bs is because journalists did the work of breaking it down
Or maybe because I live in a part of the country where there are a lot of UVA alums.
Having so many Iraqis and rapists in your neighborhood really has to keep property value low.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Schlegel »

baffled wrote:It's too long to quote all the important parts, but this is big: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... ingtonpost
Wow. WP just delivered a gut punch to Rolling Stone.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Schlegel wrote:
baffled wrote:It's too long to quote all the important parts, but this is big: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... ingtonpost
Wow. WP just delivered a gut punch to Rolling Stone.
Yup. I don't know if enough heads can roll to rectify this one.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

baffled wrote:
Schlegel wrote:
baffled wrote:It's too long to quote all the important parts, but this is big: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/edu ... ingtonpost
Wow. WP just delivered a gut punch to Rolling Stone.
Yup. I don't know if enough heads can roll to rectify this one.
Slow your roll. Syiagh isn't convinced.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Turdacious »

Phaedrus wrote:
Turdacious wrote:
dead man walking wrote:
Turdacious wrote: That our media is sensationalistic, lazy, and biased? You got me there.
that is a lazy and prejudiced observation.

the reason you know the rolling stone story is bs is because journalists did the work of breaking it down
Or maybe because I live in a part of the country where there are a lot of UVA alums.
Having so many Iraqis and rapists in your neighborhood really has to keep property value low.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Protobuilder »

baffled wrote:
T>1200 wrote:My takeaway from this whole thing is, women should not be allowed to attend college.
Pretty rapey comment, here.
I don't remember girls being in college.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.

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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

Phaedrus wrote:
baffled wrote:
T>1200 wrote:My takeaway from this whole thing is, women should not be allowed to attend college.
Pretty rapey comment, here.
I don't remember girls being in college.
College and Dungeons & Dragons at the comic book store aren't the same thing.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by syaigh »

Sometimes rape victims can't fully admit what happened to them. Stories do change out of fear and humilation. Sorry, still skeptical that nothing happened to that girl. (As in, I don't think the answer to this riddle is NOTHING HAPPENED.) And still not happy about how the administrations at colleges and universities handle this stuff. Yes, I read the WP article. I think the pendulum is going to swing somewhere back to center before this is all over.

Maybe this is a hoax as well, but its worth a read. Took this little girl over two years to finally start to admit what happened to her. If this is a hoax, its Timmah's fault. http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... mming.html
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Sua Sponte »

Could very well be that something did happen to her. The issue at hand is that if something did happen, it doesn't appear to be in any way related what's in her story as reported. Any version of it.

You can always come up with anecdotal evidence and stories about almost anything. It proves it happens, and nobody is arguing that, it doesn't prove it happened in any particular case or tell you the prevalence. Here are a few about women recanting rape charges, often times after an innocent man has served years in prison, been labeled a sex offender, lost his job, his family, and a few cases the ersatz victim being award healthy monetary settlements. Women recant I'm not sure but having to suffer a singular rape event compared to having your life destroyed doesn't seem to make the women the sympathetic persons here.

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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Compares the characteristics of rape and sexual assault victimization against females ages 18 to 24 who are enrolled and not enrolled in college. This report examines the relationship between the victim and offender, the involvement of a weapon, location of the victimization, reporting to police, perceived offender characteristics, and victim demographics. Data are from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes, reported and not reported to the police, against persons from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households. The report also discusses methodological differences between the NCVS and other surveys that measure rape and sexual assault victimization and the impact of these difference on rape and sexual assault estimates.

Highlights:

The rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher for nonstudents (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per 1,000).
For both college students and nonstudents, the offender was known to the victim in about 80% of rape and sexual assault victimizations.
Most (51%) student rape and sexual assault victimizations occurred while the victim was pursuing leisure activities away from home, compared to nonstudents who were engaged in other activities at home (50%) when the victimization occurred.
The offender had a weapon in about 1 in 10 rape and sexual assault victimizations against both students and nonstudents.
Rape and sexual assault victimizations of students (80%) were more likely than nonstudent victimizations (67%) to go unreported to police.
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5176
Maybe we should focus on real problems, not sensational ones.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Or say this one....

http://theweek.com/article/index/273258 ... ne-ignores
ut we don't have to descend to the netherworld of Greek life to find evidence of an insidious rape culture. There are indeed state-supported institutions where gang rape is used as ritual initiation. There are institutional authorities that meet this culture with indifference or outright support. And we file the poor souls of this system under the heading: deserving victims. We joke in ways that suggest that if these rape victims did not want it, they should never have put on a prison uniform.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

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Blaidd Drwg wrote:Or say this one....

http://theweek.com/article/index/273258 ... ne-ignores
ut we don't have to descend to the netherworld of Greek life to find evidence of an insidious rape culture. There are indeed state-supported institutions where gang rape is used as ritual initiation. There are institutional authorities that meet this culture with indifference or outright support. And we file the poor souls of this system under the heading: deserving victims. We joke in ways that suggest that if these rape victims did not want it, they should never have put on a prison uniform.
America loves rape for punishment as long as it's taxpayer supported and happens in the US. Go to any online discussion of a news story and see how delighted people are in the possibility that the accused could be sent off for ritual gang rape. Of course, if it happens in North Korea, it's a violation of human rights.

Similarly, nobody wants to actually address the problem on campus. I went to graduate school on a dry campus in a dry town. It also had no Greek system. Reports of sexual assault were relatively rare.

I've been following another rape case that I linked to a few pages back. Initially, victims were bullied into silence. However, after the story went national, I've seen a few people mention that we need to teach young girls that doing drugs among large groups of teenage boys who are drinking and also doing drugs is a bad idea. In every situation, the person mentioning what should be common sense was accused of 'blaming the victim' or some such thing.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by Blaidd Drwg »

Calling out alcohol is a hard sell....but it's probably deadly correct.
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Re: So, Rolling Stone...

Post by dead man walking »

the slate article i linked to discussed the role of alcohol and the fact that the federal money used for programs to address sex abuse is specifically not allowed to be used to address alcohol use because of telling girls not to drink could be seen as blaming the victim.

we're spending our money to address the problem, but we dare not discuss the most obvious form of risky behavior.
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