Russia and Ukraine

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:01 pm

Fat Cat wrote:I'm not crying about anything, I'm asking you whether Russia's current trajectory is in its long term interests.

This was back in March.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:06 pm

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... D&view=10Y
Seems to have recovered a bit, but not a good longer term trajectory.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:08 pm

And even all this dose not matter.
Only about 9 months remained to the next elections wich Yanukovich would inevitably lost. And Crimea still be Ukrainian :)

[Added]
"Russia annexed it by force earlier this year."
for me it was annexed by Ukraine 23 years ago.

"...that's not how international law works."
It is dose not matter how those laws works in that case.
BTW, and it did not matter how those laws works with Iraq, or Kosovo... or many others.

" Pretending you like it now just makes you look dumb."
maybe :)
it is dose not matter also :)) i am not a genious, i admit.
and it is dose not matter also if you believe it or not, but i like it :)

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:11 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:I'm not crying about anything, I'm asking you whether Russia's current trajectory is in its long term interests.
This was back in March.

It is good for Russia, and this is all that really matters :)

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:25 pm

I wonder what's behind the collapse of Russian Ruble.

lasalle · Post by **lasalle** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:54 pm

Smet wrote:I wonder what's behind the collapse of Russian Ruble.

Cheap oil as a result of fracking (meaning the world's biggest oil consumer can supply itself) and generally soft global economy.

A Russian economy 60% tied to the price of oil being high.

Incompetent, war mongering and tone deaf Russian leadership.

What other questions can I help you with?

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:06 pm

The Russian propensity to believe that their problems are caused by grand and nefarious foreign conspiracies instead of their own leadership's bungling incompetence is equal parts laughable and sad.

Batboy2/75 · Post by **Batboy2/75** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:13 am

I just got done ordering some stuff from Russia via E-bay. With the ruble in the tank against the dollar they are selling the shit out of stuff. Too bad all they have to sell is military equipment and oil.Lucky for me I have thing for Russian tactical gear.

You have to be careful ordering stuff from the easterlings. They love the scam. Nothing as bad as them crafty chinks, but very close. Ebay/Paypal will have to eat the orders if I happened to get scammed.

Batboy2/75 · Post by **Batboy2/75** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:43 am

lasalle wrote:
Smet wrote:I wonder what's behind the collapse of Russian Ruble.

Cheap oil as a result of fracking (meaning the world's biggest oil consumer can supply itself) and generally soft global economy.

A Russian economy 60% tied to the price of oil being high.

Incompetent, war mongering and tone deaf Russian leadership.

What other questions can I help you with?

More like cheap oil as a result of Saudi craftiness. The Saudis have been waiting to drive oil into the toilet for quite sometime. In order to have the maximum effect, they have had to wait until the price of oil was already "naturally" soft. They have been building up reserves of oil for just this moment. They didn't just open the spigot. They have a shit load of oil on ships and storage facilities around the world. The saudis are literally flooding the market with oil into a market with already awash in oil.

This is an actually a play against the Iranians. The bonus for the Saudis is that it will hurt US Fracking efforts in the short term. Unlike Russia, Iran has almost no hard currency reserves or friends to speak of. Plus, their only friend in the region tied up in a nasty civil war and also happens to require a lot of Iranian financial backing. The Saudis are trying to bleed the Iranians dry and push the current Iranian regime into collapse.

This is part of the great Sunni war against Shia Islam. The Russians are just collateral damage in this game.

In the USA the Obama administration is the big winner. Oil is down and people like that. It is also punishing the hell out of the Fracking and oil industry; an industry that the Democratic party doesn't particularly like. Not to mention it's punishing red state oil producing areas of the USA that didn't vote for Obama; another big plus. Then throw on top it's hurting the Russians. Christmas came early for Obama this year.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:17 am

lasalle wrote:
Smet wrote:I wonder what's behind the collapse of Russian Ruble.

Cheap oil as a result of fracking (meaning the world's biggest oil consumer can supply itself) and generally soft global economy.

A Russian economy 60% tied to the price of oil being high.

Incompetent, war mongering and tone deaf Russian leadership.

What other questions can I help you with?

Well, can you explain why it gained 15c in the last five days?

lasalle · Post by **lasalle** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:59 am

Batboy2/75 wrote:
More like cheap oil as a result of Saudi craftiness. The Saudis have been waiting to drive oil into the toilet for quite sometime. In order to have the maximum effect, they have had to wait until the price of oil was already "naturally" soft. They have been building up reserves of oil for just this moment. They didn't just open the spigot. They have a shit load of oil on ships and storage facilities around the world. The saudis are literally flooding the market with oil into a market with already awash in oil.

This is an actually a play against the Iranians. The bonus for the Saudis is that it will hurt US Fracking efforts in the short term. Unlike Russia, Iran has almost no hard currency reserves or friends to speak of. Plus, their only friend in the region tied up in a nasty civil war and also happens to require a lot of Iranian financial backing. The Saudis are trying to bleed the Iranians dry and push the current Iranian regime into collapse.

This is part of the great Sunni war against Shia Islam. The Russians are just collateral damage in this game.

In the USA the Obama administration is the big winner. Oil is down and people like that. It is also punishing the hell out of the Fracking and oil industry; an industry that the Democratic party doesn't particularly like. Not to mention it's punishing red state oil producing areas of the USA that didn't vote for Obama; another big plus. Then throw on top it's hurting the Russians. Christmas came early for Obama this year.

that's a very interesting theory, and I've read it elsewhere. I'm not sure I give them that much credit, but very possible. Good news either way, no?

Smet wrote:Well, can you explain why it gained 15c in the last five days?

It's part of our master plan. It's coming together beautifully. None of this is the Russian's fault. It's all us. You've figured it out.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:00 am

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:34 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Wild Bill wrote:The same was as no evidence that E.U. and U.S. started this shit.
I have now provided conclusive evidence. Please do likewise. An admission by Obama would be a cool way to kick things off.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QAXmf5_EOs[/youtube]

Obama wrote:And since Mr. Putin made this decision around Crimea and Ukraine — not because of some grand strategy, but essentially because he was caught off-balance by the protests in the Maidan and Yanukovych then fleeing after we had brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine...

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:58 pm

An interesting perspective:

The Russians of Crimea, the initial beneficiaries of Moscow’s humanitarian intervention, have seen the collapse of tourism and agriculture, soaring prices, physical isolation, and massive disruption as the peninsula switches from Ukrainian to Russia law, regulation and practice. All the same, the most acute problems are potentially only of a transitional nature. If Moscow comes through with the promised funding, and most of it isn’t stolen (two very heroic assumptions), Crimea could with time settle into, if not exactly prosperity, then at least a state of tolerable stagnation.

The Donbass, on the other hand, would be lucky to have Crimea’s problems. Desultory demonstrations and the seizure of a few municipal centers and armories were transformed into armed conflict once Igor Strelkov and his gang of Russians gunned down the Ukrainian security forces who tried to stop their incursion. However, Moscow failed to repeat its Crimean cakewalk in the Donbass, which became a theater of fierce positional fighting punctuated by heavy artillery bombardment in densely populated areas.

As a result, the overwhelmingly Russian-speaking Donbass has suffered the brunt of the war’s destruction, casualties and displacement. The local economy, which was seriously depressed even before the war, is now devastated. To make matters worse, Moscow has decided to finance its occupation of the Donbass on the cheap. Blanching at the astronomical price tag just to maintain the Donbass, let alone reconstruct it, Russia has indignantly insisted that Kyiv continue paying salaries and pensions, as well as foot the gas bill. Kyiv, of course, doesn’t even have the funds to cover its obligations in the territory it controls, and is not about to bankroll separatism. So, while Moscow self-righteously waits for Kyiv to pick up the check, the needs of the Donbass’ Russian-speaking population go unmet. If the Russians of Crimea can plausibly hope for a brighter tomorrow, the Russians and Russian-speakers of the Donbass can have no such illusion. Their future bodes unremitting misery under any plausible scenario.

Oddly enough, the best-off Russians in Ukraine are arguably the ones who still live under Ukrainian rule.

http://www.the-american-interest.com/20 ... al-damage/

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:29 pm

already year they tallk about russian occupation and still no any evidence.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 10:51 pm

Bill, out of curiosity, where do you think they get all the stuff necessary to keep the war running? Weapons, machinery, supplies, ammunition, maintenance etc.?

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:19 pm

Smet, out of curiosity, do you understand difference between "occupation" and "support"?

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:46 pm

To clarify.

Occupation was in Iraq for example.
Support was in Syria or Libya, although in Libya was not only support, there were air-strikes. But you can feel difference.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:12 am

Thanks for the clarification. Does it mean that you agree that Russia provides the logistics for the rebels? Let me clarify: I mean Russia sends troops, weapons, ammunition, supplies, provides technical maintenance and advisory support. Right?

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:26 am

Wild Bill wrote:already year they tallk about russian occupation and still no any evidence.

There's plenty of evidence that the economies of Russia and the occupied/separatist parts of the Ukraine are worse off.

Sangoma · Post by **Sangoma** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:29 am

That was the goal of the whole show, wasn't it?

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:06 am

Smet wrote:Thanks for the clarification. Does it mean that you agree that Russia provides the logistics for the rebels? Let me clarify: I mean Russia sends troops, weapons, ammunition, supplies, provides technical maintenance and advisory support. Right?

There no clear evidence even of supporting. But yes, i am sure Russia supporting them.

Yes, I'm drunk · Post by **Yes, I'm drunk** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:29 am

Interesting to note that the crafty Jew that wrote the blueprint for the Iraq invasion of 2003 already in the late 90s i.e Robert Kagan:

is married to the crafty Jew that orchestrated the illegal overthrow of the internationally recognized government of Ukraine i.e Victoria Newland?

Must be the family business.

DrDonkeyLove · Post by **DrDonkeyLove** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:07 am

Yes, I'm drunk wrote:Interesting to note that the crafty Jew that wrote the blueprint for the Iraq invasion of 2003 already in the late 90s i.e Robert Kagan: is married to the crafty Jew that orchestrated the illegal overthrow of the internationally recognized government of Ukraine i.e Victoria Newland? Must be the family business.

Cute couple.

Batboy2/75 · Post by **Batboy2/75** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:00 am

I've noticed that Russia has yet to collapse at predicted. I also see the ADD west has moved onto rubber neck at other global world train wrecks.

Again, fuck Europe and fuck the Ukraine. Leave them to the tender mercy of Vlad.

IGX

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