Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Is stopping an Afghan male from raping an Afghan child worth sacrificing the lives of Military Members?
What if the Military Member was your child?
-Stan
What if the Military Member was your child?
-Stan
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
I'm loathe to continue this after you tripped and fell and landed on the relative dick, but just for shits and giggles.DARTH wrote:No, how historical accurate of me. You wanted to compare us about 100-150 years ago to Ragheads today, and still fall short, but you suck dick so there is that.
Your argument is that the occurrence separated by time (Jerry Lee's tween cousin-fucking occurred 60 years ago, not 100-150) renders sex with minors acceptable, 'because time.'
Them thar minors could fight in wars and shit - which isn't actually true, mind you (the recruiting age for both the United States and the treasonous military even in the Civil War was essentially 18 - it was lowered to 17 as the treasonous side was put under pressure... but 17-year olds can enlist in the contemporary military) - but we'll momentarily accept your argument that 12-year old pussy is okay if they ain't real chilluns.
Thus your argument is that child-fucking in a culture separated by time and status of children is acceptable, because that's the way it it was.
This is the very essence of relativism - morals and ethics are dependent on context. (Note, I don't particularly have a problem with relativism - it's almost impossible to have two brain cells to rub together and not be somewhat accepting of the contextual nature of right and wrong.) The context you choose to find acceptable is 'time.'
You choose to not recognize a similar context for Afghanistan (cultural mores, differing status of children - who can be soldiers unlike your mythical 'murrican boy soldiers) because they're filthy Mohammedan scum, not because you actually hold a hard and fast line on right and wrong.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
I think what most of you fail to understand is that there is no black-and-white. There is no good in letting something like that happen, there is no good in stopping that. And the reason for that is that the world as each and every one of you knows but conveniently forgets at times is that the world is not black-and-white.stanley_white wrote:Is stopping an Afghan male from raping an Afghan child worth sacrificing the lives of Military Members?
What if the Military Member was your child?
-Stan
What Stan refers to is the proverbial ancient dilemma of 1 versus 1 million etc.
There are infinite scenarios where doing the right thing could create a backlash so big that it could not be contained. They are equally as main scenarios for the opposite action, for a quick example, that raped boy grows up and becomes a military aged male that grows up remembering that the bearded man from America was buddy buddy with the guy that raped him and hit his mother or worse. The boy is now all grown and hates America, and will have no issue killing the next one of us within range.
The truth is most of you here are not remotely equipped to understand what's happening on the ground, I don't care how many Tom Clancy novels you read or how many cool cats you know, unless you have been on the ground among those people then you have no real understanding of the dynamics involved.
Actually the few people (that I am aware of) that we have on this board and have been in similar situations have not yet commented, and I can say that's not surprising.
As for me, after cursory reviewing the situation as it's been described in the media I can only say this : it appears that the Green Beret did not made a proper evaluation as to the consequences of his action, he went purely by emotion.
If I was him I will probably slip into the night and pop that guy without anyone being the wiser. But that would ultimately serve only the purpose of "justice" as we interpret it in our society, but by all accounts not the mission at hand. What is that mission? We don't know. We can't know. It's not our job to. There are other people that are responsible for that, and between those people there are even more compartmentalized elements of who can know what and so forth so on.
To attempt to understand such a complex situation by the notion of Western civilization justice alone is an exercise in futility as it is naive.
"Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt "
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Concur with Dux.
-Stan
-Stan
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
milos, all that cum you suck has got to your brains. You clearly can't go from paragraph to paragraph with out the Dick and Jane version.
http://www.civilwar.org/education/histo ... ought.html
"Although soldiers generally ranged in age from 18 to 45, boys as young as 12 often served as cavalry buglers or drummer boys,"
As late as 1-3 years after WW2, 14 and 15 year olds would go to the recruiters and get an adult to vouch for them as 17, with the recruiters knowing full well they were looking at someone younger. Ever heard of Col. David Hackworth? At one time he was the most decorated U.S. combat soldier alive. He lied his way into the Merchant marine at 15, even getting lost on an Island that had Japs still on it. After he got found he was booted out. he then joined the US. Army at 16, seeing his first firefight that year while in Trieste Italy. He went to Korea and was commissioned at 20 and leading his own Raider unit that he formed at 21. he was not all that rare there.
Jerry Lee's wife, like Elvises who he started dating when she was 14 (and she was an USAF col.'s daughter he met in Germany, not his cousin but stil a bit creepy>
A 14 year old backwoods girl in the mid 50's spreading her legs with a puss that's been hairy for 2-3 years? No that's nothing like a prepubescent boy being raped, not even close. While my daughter would not be out doing that because "Fuck No" but if some inbreed in Fuckitsthesticks, Ky is doing it and her parents are fine with it, I ain’t crusading against it. Fucked in this day and age sure but hill Billies can be pretty fucked up, period.
And it was about the 40's and 50s that adolescent started to be looked at as children and not jr. adults in most of the country. Before that it was upper middle class and the rich who looked at teens as children, If you were working class, your ass was more than likely working to part time or you dropped out of school and went full time.
http://www.civilwar.org/education/histo ... ought.html
"Although soldiers generally ranged in age from 18 to 45, boys as young as 12 often served as cavalry buglers or drummer boys,"
As late as 1-3 years after WW2, 14 and 15 year olds would go to the recruiters and get an adult to vouch for them as 17, with the recruiters knowing full well they were looking at someone younger. Ever heard of Col. David Hackworth? At one time he was the most decorated U.S. combat soldier alive. He lied his way into the Merchant marine at 15, even getting lost on an Island that had Japs still on it. After he got found he was booted out. he then joined the US. Army at 16, seeing his first firefight that year while in Trieste Italy. He went to Korea and was commissioned at 20 and leading his own Raider unit that he formed at 21. he was not all that rare there.
Jerry Lee's wife, like Elvises who he started dating when she was 14 (and she was an USAF col.'s daughter he met in Germany, not his cousin but stil a bit creepy>
A 14 year old backwoods girl in the mid 50's spreading her legs with a puss that's been hairy for 2-3 years? No that's nothing like a prepubescent boy being raped, not even close. While my daughter would not be out doing that because "Fuck No" but if some inbreed in Fuckitsthesticks, Ky is doing it and her parents are fine with it, I ain’t crusading against it. Fucked in this day and age sure but hill Billies can be pretty fucked up, period.
And it was about the 40's and 50s that adolescent started to be looked at as children and not jr. adults in most of the country. Before that it was upper middle class and the rich who looked at teens as children, If you were working class, your ass was more than likely working to part time or you dropped out of school and went full time.
Last edited by DARTH on Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
We are not talking about most people ( Americans and civilised folks,) I'm about the same as you there, I am talking animals or those who actively seek your harm or support those that do.Shafpocalypse Now wrote:We seem to have a permanent communication deficit, Darth.
I am not a 'man of peace'. I have both bled and made people bleed. I hunted extensively in my youth and have experience with firearms. I hold people whom I do not know and I am not related as less 'valuable' to me. If it came down to having to shoot someone to protect my family, I hope I can make the right decision, I've never been in that spot, though I have deliberately hurt people before.
Concurrently, I am not a 'man of war', either. I would prefer to avoid violent situations if at all possible, especially with my family around. I would rather drink a beer and swap amusing stories with most people than argue and fight with them. I am pretty easy going overall. Community matters, your neighbors, and at a huge macro level, your fellow citizens, provide a buffer of civilization around you for mutual benefit.
This makes me pretty normal, I imagine.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Ok Dux. I'm on board. I have never been in on the ground anywhere and will defer to the folks who have
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
You know who hated child rape and actually did something about it?
The Taliban.
Related, you know who was against Al Qaeda and the kind of Islam preached by ISIS?
Saddam Hussein
The Taliban.
Related, you know who was against Al Qaeda and the kind of Islam preached by ISIS?
Saddam Hussein
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Also, lol'ing at the feigned outrage that the good ole US Military isn't dead set against either rape or sex with children. I mean, if you are into such things and don't have the connections to get into the UN, enlisting in the Army has to be the best way to do either 'legally'.
WildGorillaMan wrote:Enthusiasm combined with no skill whatsoever can sometimes carry the day.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Yup...Protobuilder wrote:You know who hated child rape and actually did something about it?
The Taliban.
Related, you know who was against Al Qaeda and the kind of Islam preached by ISIS?
Saddam Hussein
-Stan
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
On a related note I suggest everyone read "Why We Lost" by LTG Daniel Bolger.
-Stan
-Stan
Last edited by stanley_white on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Everyone is entitled to an opinion brother, and I respect them all, I just don't think that there is black and white in anything not just this.Shafpocalypse Now wrote:Ok Dux. I'm on board. I have never been in on the ground anywhere and will defer to the folks who have
"Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt "
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
So, should the US go all Swiss in the foreign policy realm? Leave the world to the next-biggest badass? China? Russia?
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
If the American Public knew about the Raghead Culture's treatment of women, boys, and animals, our involvement there would change.
What i observed in AG turned me against us being over there without an our way or you are gonna be a glass parking lot Concept of Ops.
What i observed in AG turned me against us being over there without an our way or you are gonna be a glass parking lot Concept of Ops.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
The longer this goes on, the more I side with the dlyna, and with what pl says above...those people are not goi g to stop what they are doing unless we make it very costly for them.
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
It will have to come down to an engagement using total war doctrine, be it conventional or next gen " Holy shit!" onslaught on them and I don't look forward to it because the last 13 years and how America as a whole acts about it means it will be our kids having to do it.Shafpocalypse Now wrote:The longer this goes on, the more I side with the dlyna, and with what pl says above...those people are not goi g to stop what they are doing unless we make it very costly for them.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
stanley_white wrote:On a related note I suggest everyone read "Why We Lost" by LTG Daniel Bolger.
-Stan
I'll look for it. I read Deathgrounds back in 2002. Liked it. Trooper did not agree with some of his assessments about Mogadishu or the role of Col. David, seeing as he was there, but it was a pretty solid book and Trooper said it was a good view of US Infantry at that time.
I wish the " Send a bullet not a man" polocy was more in effect. I sure hoe it is if my boys end up facing those animals.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
The Truth About the Wars
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/op ... istan.html
AS a senior commander in Iraq and Afghanistan, I lost 80 soldiers. Despite their sacrifices, and those of thousands more, all we have to show for it are two failed wars. This fact eats at me every day, and Veterans Day is tougher than most.
As veterans, we tell ourselves it was all worth it. The grim butchery of war hovers out of sight and out of mind, an unwelcome guest at the dignified ceremonies. Instead, we talk of devotion to duty and noble sacrifice. We salute the soldiers at Omaha Beach, the sailors at Leyte Gulf, the airmen in the skies over Berlin and the Marines at the Chosin Reservoir, and we’re not wrong to do so. The military thrives on tales of valor. In our volunteer armed forces, such stirring examples keep bringing young men and women through the recruiters’ door. As we used to say in the First Cavalry Division, they want to “live the legend.” In the military, we love our legends.
Here’s a legend that’s going around these days. In 2003, the United States invaded Iraq and toppled a dictator. We botched the follow-through, and a vicious insurgency erupted. Four years later, we surged in fresh troops, adopted improved counterinsurgency tactics and won the war. And then dithering American politicians squandered the gains. It’s a compelling story. But it’s just that — a story.
The surge in Iraq did not “win” anything. It bought time. It allowed us to kill some more bad guys and feel better about ourselves. But in the end, shackled to a corrupt, sectarian government in Baghdad and hobbled by our fellow Americans’ unwillingness to commit to a fight lasting decades, the surge just forestalled today’s stalemate. Like a handful of aspirin gobbled by a fevered patient, the surge cooled the symptoms. But the underlying disease didn’t go away. The remnants of Al Qaeda in Iraq and the Sunni insurgents we battled for more than eight years simply re-emerged this year as the Islamic State, also known as ISIS.
The surge legend is soothing, especially for military commanders like me. We can convince ourselves that we did our part, and a few more diplomats or civilian leaders should have done theirs. Similar myths no doubt comforted Americans who fought under the command of Robert E. Lee in the Civil War or William C. Westmoreland in Vietnam. But as a three-star general who spent four years trying to win this thing — and failing — I now know better.
We did not understand the enemy, a guerrilla network embedded in a quarrelsome, suspicious civilian population. We didn’t understand our own forces, which are built for rapid, decisive conventional operations, not lingering, ill-defined counterinsurgencies. We’re made for Desert Storm, not Vietnam. As a general, I got it wrong. Like my peers, I argued to stay the course, to persist and persist, to “clear/hold/build” even as the “hold” stage stretched for months, and then years, with decades beckoning. We backed ourselves season by season into a long-term counterinsurgency in Iraq, then compounded it by doing likewise in Afghanistan. The American people had never signed up for that.
What went wrong in Iraq and in Afghanistan isn’t the stuff of legend. It won’t bring people into the recruiting office, or make for good speeches on Veterans Day. Reserve those honors for the brave men and women who bear the burdens of combat.
That said, those who served deserve an accounting from the generals. What happened? How? And, especially, why? It has to be a public assessment, nonpartisan and not left to the military. (We tend to grade ourselves on the curve.) Something along the lines of the 9/11 Commission is in order. We owe that to our veterans and our fellow citizens.
Such an accounting couldn’t be more timely. Today we are hearing some, including those in uniform, argue for a robust ground offensive against the Islamic State in Iraq. Air attacks aren’t enough, we’re told. Our Kurdish and Iraqi Army allies are weak and incompetent. Only another surge can win the fight against this dire threat. Really? If insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, I think we’re there.
As a veteran, and a general who learned hard lessons in two lost campaigns, I’d like to suggest an alternative. Maybe an incomplete and imperfect effort to contain the Islamic State is as good as it gets. Perhaps the best we can or should do is to keep it busy, “degrade” its forces, harry them or kill them, and seek the long game at the lowest possible cost. It’s not a solution that is likely to spawn a legend. But in the real world, it just may well give us something better than another defeat.
Daniel P. Bolger, the author of “Why We Lost,” retired from the United States Army last year as a lieutenant general.
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
We'll never know how things would be different had the US kept a residual force in Iraq. All people can offer is, "Things would have gone to shit anyway." But that's a story, too.Four years later, we surged in fresh troops, adopted improved counterinsurgency tactics and won the war. And then dithering American politicians squandered the gains. It’s a compelling story. But it’s just that — a story.
The surge in Iraq did not “win” anything. It bought time. It allowed us to kill some more bad guys and feel better about ourselves. But in the end, shackled to a corrupt, sectarian government in Baghdad and hobbled by our fellow Americans’ unwillingness to commit to a fight lasting decades, the surge just forestalled today’s stalemate.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
W.B. Yeats
Are full of passionate intensity.
W.B. Yeats
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
FWIW, my belief formed in AG after seeing it up close and talking to locals and "terps-interpreters" for many hours is we need to have a notional wall around their crapholes and tell the jawas we are leaving you to do whatever the hell you sick bastards do in your countries to each other, but if you export it in any way anywhere anyhow you will see a mushroom cloud bloom close by and if you do it again we will triple the response everytime thereafter. I know this is not measured or complex or erudite or maybe even immoral. We are dealing with more than a difference in culture, we are dealing with almost a different dimension. Hard to describe.
Layers and layers of PC BS will prevent this. But you cannot deal with these cultures as even being understandable to the military or political professional, let alone the average American. Hell we cannot even find consensus that bringing jawas to his country and actually agreeing to their demands is foolhardy.
Look at the son of the CAIR guy who brought a countdown timer in a briefcase to school in Irving, Texas. Boo-hoo a poor muslim lad was profiled and discriminated against and they are mean and cruel and white Texans...
except if Miss Colorado in her sash and Nurses Scrubs and Stethoscope walks through Security at DFW a few miles away and runs that briefcase through the scanner she is in for a long, long day ahead. Hot or not.
We can't call a threat a threat or even a bugger a bugger.
Layers and layers of PC BS will prevent this. But you cannot deal with these cultures as even being understandable to the military or political professional, let alone the average American. Hell we cannot even find consensus that bringing jawas to his country and actually agreeing to their demands is foolhardy.
Look at the son of the CAIR guy who brought a countdown timer in a briefcase to school in Irving, Texas. Boo-hoo a poor muslim lad was profiled and discriminated against and they are mean and cruel and white Texans...
except if Miss Colorado in her sash and Nurses Scrubs and Stethoscope walks through Security at DFW a few miles away and runs that briefcase through the scanner she is in for a long, long day ahead. Hot or not.
We can't call a threat a threat or even a bugger a bugger.
"Start slowly, then ease off". Tortuga Golden Striders Running Club, Pensacola 1984.
"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex
"But even snake wrestling beats life in the cube, for me at least. In measured doses."-Lex
Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Cool story, except for the part where the kid didn't try to take it through airport security. It's like saying I can walk around all day with my Tavor strapped to my back but if I try to walk through airport security I'm fucked - both true and irrelevant in essentially all situations.Look at the son of the CAIR guy who brought a countdown timer in a briefcase to school in Irving, Texas. Boo-hoo a poor muslim lad was profiled and discriminated against and they are mean and cruel and white Texans...
except if Miss Colorado in her sash and Nurses Scrubs and Stethoscope walks through Security at DFW a few miles away and runs that briefcase through the scanner she is in for a long, long day ahead. Hot or not.
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
I mostly agree with Jack, but we have no concept of the mission going on at that time.
I know I don't want them in the US. We cannot become like France or Germany (soon).
I know I don't want them in the US. We cannot become like France or Germany (soon).
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
Ordered LTG Bolger's book on your recommendation. Another good book which is appropriate for both Iraq and Afghanistan:
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: Green Beret kicked out of Army for roughing up child rapist
largely agree. perhaps we wouldn't have to start with the mushroom cloud, but if we're going to go to war, then go to fucking war.powerlifter54 wrote:FWIW, my belief formed in AG after seeing it up close and talking to locals and "terps-interpreters" for many hours is we need to have a notional wall around their crapholes and tell the jawas we are leaving you to do whatever the hell you sick bastards do in your countries to each other, but if you export it in any way anywhere anyhow you will see a mushroom cloud bloom close by and if you do it again we will triple the response everytime thereafter. I know this is not measured or complex or erudite or maybe even immoral. We are dealing with more than a difference in culture, we are dealing with almost a different dimension. Hard to describe.
Really Big Strong Guy: There are a plethora of psychopaths among us.