IGX

nafod wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

nafod wrote:

TerryB wrote:[quote="milosz"
Blaming pills is a shuck and jive from the gun side,

If you want to solve the problem, shouldn't you investigate the possible causes?

YES

Do tell. And again, please understand I happen to respect you in terms of the miles you've walked and the perspective that brings.

Do tell what you believe has *changed* in say, the last 50 years of America that has created 300 mass shootings per year today vs. when you and I were in Pampers.

The guns aren't any better, the ammo isn't any more accessible, what is different?

Well, lets gather the data and do the deep analysis and determine what the difference is, rather than shouting with opinion. Really, climate change science has better data and models to go on. There's just enough data now for everyone to draw their own conclusions. Makes for sporting arguments tethered loosely to reality.[/quote]

So YOU tell ME what has changed at least in the fuzzy/intuitive sense while you await sme of well vetteed answer......I am asking with respect, FWIW.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

nafod wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

nafod wrote:

TerryB wrote:[quote="milosz"
Blaming pills is a shuck and jive from the gun side,

If you want to solve the problem, shouldn't you investigate the possible causes?

YES

Do tell. And again, please understand I happen to respect you in terms of the miles you've walked and the perspective that brings.

Do tell what you believe has *changed* in say, the last 50 years of America that has created 300 mass shootings per year today vs. when you and I were in Pampers.

The guns aren't any better, the ammo isn't any more accessible, what is different?

Well, lets gather the data and do the deep analysis and determine what the difference is, rather than shouting with opinion. Really, climate change science has better data and models to go on. There's just enough data now for everyone to draw their own conclusions. Makes for sporting arguments tethered loosely to reality.

So YOU tell ME what has changed at least in the fuzzy/intuitive sense while you await sme of well vetteed answer......I am asking with respect, FWIW.[/quote]

Well, two things we can certainly remove from the equation (based on history) is guns and ammo.

What's new that has propped-up OR created some sort of complexity against guns and ammo?

1. SSRI's (100% of mass shooters are popping these
2, 24/7 News Cycles--people seem to intuitively know to not utter the name of a homicidal mass murderer, yet they seem to treasure their 15 minutes of fame...........
3. An attitude of being a victim.

Iceland has more people on SSRIs per capita, where are their mass killings?

milosz wrote:Iceland has more people on SSRIs per capita, where are their mass killings?

and a shitload of guns, too. At least as compared to the rest of Europe.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015 ... /73435076/

Maybe we should lock up young men who can't get pussy, that seems to be the strongest predictor of shooting a bunch of people.

Every NYC public school has a couple of guards, I believe they are unarmed, but they are uniformed employees of the NYPD. No one one gets in a school without showing ID.
That may not do much to prevent an armed student from getting some shots off, but it's a start in terms of establishing a model for security.

milosz wrote:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015 ... /73435076/

Maybe we should lock up young men who can't get pussy, that seems to be the strongest predictor of shooting a bunch of people.

There is definitely a "social misfit" angle.

http://markmanson.net/school-shootings
Food for thought.

milosz wrote:Iceland has more people on SSRIs per capita, where are their mass killings?

You're marvelously obtuse.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

milosz wrote:Iceland has more people on SSRIs per capita, where are their mass killings?

You're marvelously obtuse.

Bogie, to whom I was responding, trotted out the old 'they'd find other ways' earlier - presumably if we deprive the nutbags of guns they'll turn to pipe bombs. This should be equally feasible throughout the developed world of SSRI use.

If this is true and if SSRIs are "the difference" between the days of yore and today - Bogatir's words, not mine - then the US should not be isolated on this front.

Of course, the truth is both are bullshit rationalizations to avoid the simple fact that we're a culture with easy access to objects that make violence simpler to accomplish. Guns are effective tools and modern guns are stupidly effective tools. That's why law-abiding citizens who are concerned with defense own Wonder 9s and ARs instead of Colt SAAs and bolt action - they work better. That's why cops carry Glocks instead of sharp sticks (and why cops carry Glocks instead of five-round J-frame .38s). You're not going to replace (in mass killing or in street crime) guns with knifes or bombs or homemade mustard gas.

It's also why magazine limits and flash hider bans and all that shit are useless nanny-state nonsense - the value of an AR isn't in a 100 round magazine, it's that pulling a trigger and reloading any number of magazines is faster (for the vast majority of people) operating a bolt and clip and slapping in a new magazine into a handgun is faster than even a Moon-clipped revolver. Also that guns don't break and unless you're really stupid, don't malfunction easily.

There's no reason - beyond the psychological ickiness of going "sorry, nothin' can be done" and having people cluck at you like they did Jeb - to waver on these. On the existence of guns front, banning and confiscation is impossible so let the liberals have fun trying it. On the rights front, all the amendments carry a price to them - if you're a diehard believer in the value of the 2nd as it's interpreted post-Heller, own it. Mass shootings are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things; general gun violence is largely confined to the urban underclass using them on each other - that's just what the fuck happens for that particular right. Own that shit and embrace the purity of honesty.

milosz wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

milosz wrote:Iceland has more people on SSRIs per capita, where are their mass killings?

You're marvelously obtuse.

Bogie, to whom I was responding, trotted out the old 'they'd find other ways' earlier - presumably if we deprive the nutbags of guns they'll turn to pipe bombs. This should be equally feasible throughout the developed world of SSRI use.

If this is true and if SSRIs are "the difference" between the days of yore and today - Bogatir's words, not mine - then the US should not be isolated on this front.

Of course, the truth is both are bullshit rationalizations to avoid the simple fact that we're a culture with easy access to objects that make violence simpler to accomplish. Guns are effective tools and modern guns are stupidly effective tools. That's why law-abiding citizens who are concerned with defense own Wonder 9s and ARs instead of Colt SAAs and bolt action - they work better. That's why cops carry Glocks instead of sharp sticks (and why cops carry Glocks instead of five-round J-frame .38s). You're not going to replace (in mass killing or in street crime) guns with knifes or bombs or homemade mustard gas.

It's also why magazine limits and flash hider bans and all that shit are useless nanny-state nonsense - the value of an AR isn't in a 100 round magazine, it's that pulling a trigger and reloading any number of magazines is faster (for the vast majority of people) operating a bolt and clip and slapping in a new magazine into a handgun is faster than even a Moon-clipped revolver. Also that guns don't break and unless you're really stupid, don't malfunction easily.

There's no reason - beyond the psychological ickiness of going "sorry, nothin' can be done" and having people cluck at you like they did Jeb - to waver on these. On the existence of guns front, banning and confiscation is impossible so let the liberals have fun trying it. On the rights front, all the amendments carry a price to them - if you're a diehard believer in the value of the 2nd as it's interpreted post-Heller, own it. Mass shootings are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things; general gun violence is largely confined to the urban underclass using them on each other - that's just what the fuck happens for that particular right. Own that shit and embrace the purity of honesty.

I am not trotting out an excuse by way of the Rx's. I think I've owned up to being on them non-stop for the past two years (Sertraline at 100mg/day and more recently, old school Celexa). I own weapons, too, and there have been two times in the past two years that I have been awaken in the middle of the night with someone (a deputy) pounding on my door or in the other event, a drunk hiding in the window well of my basement. As someone who has actually used firearms in RL and have pointed them at people, many, many, times, I will tell you I reacted both times by grabbing one of the pipes I keep around, not one of the guns. Why? I cannot tell you, I can tell you at 0200 HRS that is what I did. In the instance where the guy was in our basement window well, the deputy was pretty fucking keen on drawing on me (he could not have known any better so I do not fault him to this day). Good thing I had a pipe in my hand and not a gun is what I'm saying with a straight face.

Also, I should add that in both events, I was completely on the wagon and had not a sip or a whif of anything other than Sertraline and some BP meds.

Milo.

Thank you for your efforts. It appears You're still hell bent on chasing your own tale so I see no point in giving another sincere response that you're too flaccid to engage with. I will five you this.

I find the current body count from mass shooters to be Uncompelling as a health crisis. It is to me an acceptable loss. Not because I think that but because our national actions are consistently supportive of that position. It is what it is.


Tragic as it is on an individual level, it is a waste of our national attention. The principles of the constitutional right to bear arms are more important to me by far. As the right to drive shitty on public roads is far more important to us than the hundreds of thousands dead Each year from that activity.jd

Man o man, I've done some good shit with a gun in my hand and perhaps once or twice things I wish I could take back (trigger not pulled, btw). Not from hate but from fear.

Those of you who are 'mass shootings ninnys' really need to come clean with yourself and do some simple math, vs. listening to some albino homo on CNN.

TerryB wrote:[quote="milosz"
Blaming pills is a shuck and jive from the gun side,

If you want to solve the problem, shouldn't you investigate the possible causes?[/quote]

It's shuck and drive for sure as the only time many of the politicians screaming loudest about "doing something about mental health" care about the issue is when their lobbies tell them to do so to deflect attention and blame. It doesn't mean that there is no relationship and it should be investigated but nothing will be proposed or followed up on here.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:This is a classic case of no one wants to argue about what they are arguing about.

Worried about "gun violence".... Ok let's talk about brown skinned poor people illegally aquiring cheap handguns,

Want to talk about obesity public health? Ok..lets talk about food and cars and cities and lack of vigorous movement.

You want to talk about crazy people doing crazy shit? Let's talk about the factors that play a role there... Drugs, alcohol, poverty, genetic disorders, ptsd,....

If you want to advance the ball you've got get into the weeds a bit on all sides. When it comes to psych meds, we are nearing crisis levels without including mass violence as a factor.

Please, this is America. No answers that can't be summed up in eight seconds or less.

milosz wrote:\ On the existence of guns front, banning and confiscation is impossible so let the liberals have fun trying it. On the rights front, all the amendments carry a price to them - if you're a diehard believer in the value of the 2nd as it's interpreted post-Heller, own it. Mass shootings are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things; general gun violence is largely confined to the urban underclass using them on each other - that's just what the fuck happens for that particular right. Own that shit and embrace the purity of honesty.

That, my friend, is perhaps the smartest thing you've ever posted. Especially B.

This is stupid. The vast majority of "they" want to take the guns away from the person who is going to do it next, not from everybody.

Aren't you in that group?

Here is some more wisdom from William S Burroughs. Good guy to take advice on guns from.

Without heroin and suffering from Benzedrine abuse, Burroughs began to pursue other men as his libido returned, while Vollmer, feeling abandoned, started to drink heavily and mock Burroughs openly.[16] One night while drinking with friends at a party above the American-owned Bounty Bar in Mexico City,[19] a drunk Burroughs allegedly took his handgun from his travel bag and told his wife "It's time for our William Tell act," even though they had never performed such an act previously.[18] Vollmer, who was also drinking heavily and undergoing amphetamine withdrawal, obliged him by putting a highball glass on her head. Burroughs shot low and the bullet struck her, killing her almost immediately.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S ... an_Vollmer

Fucking idiot.

BD, not sure who you're addressing here but Milo's line that I bolded is pretty much nuts on.

BD, not sure who you're addressing here but Milo's line that I bolded is pretty much nuts on.

So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

You fuckers are too hard to follow....who are you speaking to?

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

You fuckers are too hard to follow....who are you speaking to?

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

That requires training to overcome natural instinct, which as we have seen in most of these active shooter incidents, is to duck & cover. Charging into rapid semi-automatic or automatic fire????

So in the same way we practiced duck & cover in the cold war, should we have K-12 and higher Ed practice classrooms practice assaulting an active shooter? Maybe a couple of times a year we run drills, where a guy comes in with a paintball gun, everyone is armored up, and the 6th graders all go "over the top" ala WWI trench warfare?

Maybe if they yell "Allah Akhbar" it will help them get their mojo on.

nafod wrote:

This is stupid. The vast majority of "they" want to take the guns away from the person who is going to do it next, not from everybody.

Aren't you in that group?

Here is some more wisdom from William S Burroughs. Good guy to take advice on guns from.

Without heroin and suffering from Benzedrine abuse, Burroughs began to pursue other men as his libido returned, while Vollmer, feeling abandoned, started to drink heavily and mock Burroughs openly.[16] One night while drinking with friends at a party above the American-owned Bounty Bar in Mexico City,[19] a drunk Burroughs allegedly took his handgun from his travel bag and told his wife "It's time for our William Tell act," even though they had never performed such an act previously.[18] Vollmer, who was also drinking heavily and undergoing amphetamine withdrawal, obliged him by putting a highball glass on her head. Burroughs shot low and the bullet struck her, killing her almost immediately.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_S ... an_Vollmer

Fucking idiot.

Thing one NafNaf

Your sense of humor lacks the rigor of your argumentative style.....which as in most cases is crafted solely from logical fallacies, papermache and spit.

Thing 2. The fact you don't know who Burroughs speaks volumes about plank stiff and board flat wooden intellect. Couple of us are going in on a really long winded 2x12 to replace you.

Thing 2. The fact you don't know who Burroughs speaks volumes about plank stiff and board flat wooden intellect.

Could you rewrite that for clarity?