IGX

nafod wrote: The vast majority of "they" want to take the guns away from the person who is going to do it next, not from everybody.

What "They" did you have in mind? Because my "They" must be different.

My "They" being Obama with his yearning for the Australian Confiscation or Hillary with her "Assault Weapons" ban and making gun manufacturers liable for criminal acts by their customers.

"They" want to treat Americans like pre-criminals and madmen.

nafod wrote:

Thing 2. The fact you don't know who Burroughs IS speaks volumes about YOUR plank stiff and board flat wooden intellect.

m
Could you rewrite that for clarity?

in short, you're boring. Burroughs is hilarious and a national treasure. Your Wikipedia ZINGER is laughable because it falls into two categories of fallacious thinking.

A) you would presume the whole of a line of thinking based on a single, if artful, turn of phrase... ( you'll note I've quoted the bible and Anton Lavey....where did that drag your imagination?) To quote a man is to agree with him in totalis....pffft

B) you would further blow by the incredibly awesome apple story not for its ironic humor but some misguided probative value WRT gun safety. Again. Clunky and laughably dumb.


I understand a sense of humor nuanced thinking like irony and are not required fly an airplane....but I'm more than a little worried about what other capacities might have been removed along with them.

nafod wrote:

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

That requires training to overcome natural instinct, which as we have seen in most of these active shooter incidents, is to duck & cover. Charging into rapid semi-automatic or automatic fire????

So in the same way we practiced duck & cover in the cold war, should we have K-12 and higher Ed practice classrooms practice assaulting an active shooter? Maybe a couple of times a year we run drills, where a guy comes in with a paintball gun, everyone is armored up, and the 6th graders all go "over the top" ala WWI trench warfare?

Maybe if they yell "Allah Akhbar" it will help them get their mojo on.

So???? You should stand there and let him shoot you?? Why not reverse the "duck and cover" training to rush the motherfucker training? How about the 3 guys on the train in France recently?????

Not everybody likes lists. But a few items.

1. The conflict between HIPAA laws and ability for background checks to discover nutbaggery is a problem. A big problem with no easy solution. Somebody is going to not like anything done here.
2. Gun free zones need to be guarded for access by guards with guns. You cannot set up a henhouse then let the wolf waltz in. Easy to do in a grammar school, harder to do at a community college but not impossible.
3. Guards without guns and ability to shoot, move, and communicate are targets.
4. When the Colorado theatre shooting went down i was in the fortunate company of some very accomplished shooters. One of the previous discussions was about concealed carry and preferences. I carried a SW .40 and liked it but did not want to commit to that size weapon on a daily basis. My otherwise sleek physique does not work well with any type of concealed holster. I had brought up using a smaller revolver and expected to be laughed out of room by guys who kicked doors in so much on AD they came back to keep doing it as contractors. They surprisingly agreed a 5-6 shot revolver was sufficient for use in extremis. Their view was if you are in an enclosed room or space and an active shooter emerges, they are probably not trained as well as they are equipped and armed. If they are a pro you are dead with 5 or 16 shots. But if not, two shots, even if they miss, will get the shooter grabbing some floor and gives you time to close for the kill or GTFO. Not looking for a gunfight, looking for a chance to live. Not for everybody, but i didn't come this far to lay face down in popcorn oil and jujufruits waiting to die.
5. One of my last projects on AD was to run an active shooter in my command's facilities. Strange that every other unit on the base wanted no part of it. We planned with base security and the Auxiliary security force folks the whole thing with layers of control and safety. Almost to the point where i began to question the viability of the whole thing. The Base Commander and Base Police Chief really wanted to start off walking before they went high speed. The day of the drill everybody was set and they only had the time of day and what entrance the shooter was using a surpise. Long story short, it was a goat rope. The shooter got in and had over a dozen kills. He was using blanks but i never heard a shot even in the building. The response time, communication, and active shooter ROE had them outside delaying for over 20 mins before entering. When they did come in the shooter got a bunch of the response team. An epic disaster. Takeaways were many and they didn't want to do it again before i retired. But my takeaway is you can shelter in place and hope to not die, or get out right away. Both are risky and you are relying on luck. A personal firearm changes a lot of math, just like the Navy Commander did at the Reserve Center in Chattanooga.
6. I do not advocate for everybody or anybody to have a gun. But some people should.

[quote="powerlifter54"]Not everybody likes lists. But a few items.

My otherwise sleek physique does not work well with any type of concealed holster. I had brought up using a smaller revolver and expected to be laughed out of room by guys who kicked doors in so much on AD they came back to keep doing it as contractors. They surprisingly agreed a 5-6 shot revolver was sufficient for use in extremis. Their view was if you are in an enclosed room or space and an active shooter emerges, they are probably not trained as well as they are equipped and armed. If they are a pro you are dead with 5 or 16 shots. But if not, two shots, even if they miss, will get the shooter grabbing some floor and gives you time to close for the kill or GTFO. Not looking for a gunfight, looking for a chance to live. Not for everybody, but i didn't come this far to lay face down in popcorn oil and jujufruits waiting to die.

Holy shit, its like you're reading my mind. Gimmie (for the home) my revolver over a Semiauto....my rational is simplicity under extreme stress handled by the least experienced person in the home. A 5 shot S&W Sentinel is as bombproof as it gets. It's also unlikely to go through a wall and into your kid's room. Which childless folks like Miloz, just cannot appreciate that perspective. Plan B is your shotgun you use for Pheasant hunting and assuming it's a 12ga/no choke, you use the same shells you'd use to take down the birds (see reasons under the .38 revolver and children for more). Third and perhaps this should be first, is a full can of wasp spray. The tiniest squirt in the eye of an attacker would render him borderline helpless for many minutes and definitely enough time to empty that can in his eyes, nostrils, and mouth and then beat him repeatedly (if necessary) with blows to the temple with that empty can.

Andy82 wrote:

nafod wrote:

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

That requires training to overcome natural instinct, which as we have seen in most of these active shooter incidents, is to duck & cover. Charging into rapid semi-automatic or automatic fire????

So in the same way we practiced duck & cover in the cold war, should we have K-12 and higher Ed practice classrooms practice assaulting an active shooter? Maybe a couple of times a year we run drills, where a guy comes in with a paintball gun, everyone is armored up, and the 6th graders all go "over the top" ala WWI trench warfare?

Maybe if they yell "Allah Akhbar" it will help them get their mojo on.

So???? You should stand there and let him shoot you?? Why not reverse the "duck and cover" training to rush the motherfucker training? How about the 3 guys on the train in France recently?????

Should has nothing to do with it. History tells you that when it is time to charge into a steady stream of fire, what people might think they are going to do and what they actually do can be different.

But that is exactly what I briefed my class on. We will get out, or shelter in place, or last ditch charge the shooter. It was a very serious discussion for a bunch of college coeds.

nafod wrote:

Andy82 wrote:

nafod wrote:

Andy82 wrote:So if you were in that class, would you just stand there and let the asshole shoot you? Ben Carson says why not the whole group rush that sonofabitch and pound the livin' shit out of him. He might get one of them but not all.

That requires training to overcome natural instinct, which as we have seen in most of these active shooter incidents, is to duck & cover. Charging into rapid semi-automatic or automatic fire????

So in the same way we practiced duck & cover in the cold war, should we have K-12 and higher Ed practice classrooms practice assaulting an active shooter? Maybe a couple of times a year we run drills, where a guy comes in with a paintball gun, everyone is armored up, and the 6th graders all go "over the top" ala WWI trench warfare?

Maybe if they yell "Allah Akhbar" it will help them get their mojo on.

So???? You should stand there and let him shoot you?? Why not reverse the "duck and cover" training to rush the motherfucker training? How about the 3 guys on the train in France recently?????

Should has nothing to do with it. History tells you that when it is time to charge into a steady stream of fire, what people might think they are going to do and what they actually do can be different.

But that is exactly what I briefed my class on. We will get out, or shelter in place, or last ditch charge the shooter. It was a very serious discussion for a bunch of college coeds.

Having a plan is a damn good start. You having a concealed pistol would be the end game, but we are far from that.

Life is so scary!

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

Pretty sure the more cautious thing would be getting the guns out of a house with small children.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

Pretty sure the more cautious thing would be getting the guns out of a house with small children.

If you really believe that, I hope to God you get a vasectomy like tomorrow.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Pretty sure the more cautious thing would be getting the guns out of a house with small children.

Kill Yourself.

I beg of you.

I'm absolutely sure raising fearful cunts is the worst disservice you can do the human race. Here's a list of 5 tools that demand respect No one is freakin out about....you know why? becuase most people have the balls to explain how ordinary objects are dangerous when mishandled.







My 9 year old knows what to do with all those and how to handle a firearm. Raising humans is so much more relaxing than raising sheep.

Ha!

FWIW yesterday, I just about tore my left index fingernail off messing with my brand spanking new 20v DeWalt MAX toolkit (the drill of all things), so add a sixth dastardly dangerous invention you can buy immediately and with not BG check that can also quite easily kill you or others surrounding you.

Blaidd Drwg wrote: My 9 year old knows what to do with all those and how to handle a firearm. Raising humans is so much more relaxing than raising sheep.

Have you played "William Tell" with him yet? Who goes first?

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:If you really believe that, I hope to God you get a vasectomy like tomorrow.

Eh, I think if grown adults want to prepare themselves for rampaging Crips instead of heart disease, that's their prerogative. But when there's a kid involved, there's a greater responsibility to deal with.

I had a hard time finding information about "child-proofing" a gun that doesn't render it useless in an emergency. Maybe you don't child-proof. OK. Every person I know who train/clean their guns regularly has at least one ND in their house. Most people don't train to a useful degree anyway.

Latest stats I saw showed that a white American was about as likely to get shot at as a guy who lives in Belgium or Finland. And that includes the white American males who do a ton of dumb shit. Guns are fun, they're a useful tool when you need one, but for anybody here, "when" is "statistically never." If you think you need one to defend against a real threat to your kids, you're nuts. It's really time to wake the fuck up. Your kids would be much, much better served if you invested in defending yourself on the shit likely to actually kill you and them.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:If you really believe that, I hope to God you get a vasectomy like tomorrow.

Eh, I think if grown adults want to prepare themselves for rampaging Crips instead of heart disease, that's their prerogative. But when there's a kid involved, there's a greater responsibility to deal with.

I had a hard time finding information about "child-proofing" a gun that doesn't render it useless in an emergency. Maybe you don't child-proof. OK. Every person I know who train/clean their guns regularly has at least one ND in their house. Most people don't train to a useful degree anyway.

Latest stats I saw showed that a white American was about as likely to get shot at as a guy who lives in Belgium or Finland. And that includes the white American males who do a ton of dumb shit. Guns are fun, they're a useful tool when you need one, but for anybody here, "when" is "statistically never." If you think you need one to defend against a real threat to your kids, you're nuts. It's really time to wake the fuck up. Your kids would be much, much better served if you invested in defending yourself on the shit likely to actually kill you and them.

Some asshole running around this place keeps referring to $3-$4 cans of wasp spray. This motherfucking genius has several things figured out:
1. someone who has never used deadly physical force is more likely to spray bug juice than use a firearm in RL
2. odds are heavily in favor of the victim that the perp will be fairly well incapacitated in a heartbeat b way of the tiniest squirt to a gunman's eyes
3 A fairly panicked person can be fairly accurate with wasp spray from 20' away. Try that wih a 5 shot .38 in the hands of an unexperienced gunman and get back to me.

EDIT: look assholes, I want the bag guy's pinned down and thier brains exploding....but let us figure out, in the interm, to get the job done and done right.

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

You're right: I can't possibly care for another human being in such a way to be cautious, because losing them would be unbearable, compared to your children.

You totes told me there.

Why not carry a gun, wear a helmet, and drive an armored car around town?

If you're all so fucking afraid, just dig in somewhere and wait to be a hero.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Pretty sure the more cautious thing would be getting the guns out of a house with small children.

Kill Yourself.

I beg of you?

I'm absolutely sure raising fearful cunts is the worst disservice you can do the human race. Here's a list of 5 tools that demand respect No one is freakin out about....you know why? becuase most people have the balls to explain how ordinary objects are dangerous when mishandled.







My 9 year old knows what to do with all those and how to handle a firearm. Raising humans is so much more relaxing than raising sheep.

You really don't think there's a notable or worthwhile difference between a firearm and a ladder?

I get your point, but, come on.

Testiclaw wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

You're right: I can't possibly care for another human being in such a way to be cautious, because losing them would be unbearable, compared to your children.

You totes told me there.

Why not carry a gun, wear a helmet, and drive an armored car around town?

If you're all so fucking afraid, just dig in somewhere and wait to be a hero.

All people like you do is fortify your level of clueless with guys like me......I wish like hell it were different as we need much better men who have 'born on' dates of 1980a oe 1990's, but unfortunately for you, you're level of gusto against your reality is essentially zero. Sucks to be a guy like you, I suppose.

Testiclaw wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

You're right: I can't possibly care for another human being in such a way to be cautious, because losing them would be unbearable, compared to your children.

You totes told me there.

Why not carry a gun, wear a helmet, and drive an armored car around town?

If you're all so fucking afraid, just dig in somewhere and wait to be a hero.

All people like you do is fortify your level of clueless with guys like me......I wish like hell it were different as we need much better men who have 'born on' dates of 1980a oe 1990's, but unfortunately for you, you're level of gusto against your reality is essentially zero. Sucks to be a guy like you, I suppose.

7 pages

ugh

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:

Testiclaw wrote:Life is so scary!

It can be at times but it's a helluva lot of fun, too. Pardon those of us with kids for being a little bit on the cautious side in our mindset. I'm 99% sure you're not in our boat.

You're right: I can't possibly care for another human being in such a way to be cautious, because losing them would be unbearable, compared to your children.

You totes told me there.

Why not carry a gun, wear a helmet, and drive an armored car around town?

If you're all so fucking afraid, just dig in somewhere and wait to be a hero.

All people like you do is fortify your level of clueless with guys like me......I wish like hell it were different as we need much better men who have 'born on' dates of 1980a oe 1990's, but unfortunately for you, you're level of gusto against your reality is essentially zero. Sucks to be a guy like you, I suppose.

I survived as a poor white kid, and a runaway, in New Haven without needing a firearm.

Never even thought to try and get one.

Life isn't that scary to me, to have the desire for a firearm "just to be sure".

Sorry that it is, for you. It's probably a source of great anxiety for you.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:If you really believe that, I hope to God you get a vasectomy like tomorrow.

Eh, I think if grown adults want to prepare themselves for rampaging Crips instead of heart disease, that's their prerogative. But when there's a kid involved, there's a greater responsibility to deal with.

I had a hard time finding information about "child-proofing" a gun that doesn't render it useless in an emergency. Maybe you don't child-proof. OK. Every person I know who train/clean their guns regularly has at least one ND in their house. Most people don't train to a useful degree anyway.

Latest stats I saw showed that a white American was about as likely to get shot at as a guy who lives in Belgium or Finland. And that includes the white American males who do a ton of dumb shit. Guns are fun, they're a useful tool when you need one, but for anybody here, "when" is "statistically never." If you think you need one to defend against a real threat to your kids, you're nuts. It's really time to wake the fuck up. Your kids would be much, much better served if you invested in defending yourself on the shit likely to actually kill you and them.

My guns are in a safe and I can access them in 15 seconds or less if I need to. One reason I have them is that I was once completely defenseless while three escaped murderers roamed my rural neighborhood in the dead of night. They did invade a local home but thankfully it wasn't mine. I'll never allow my family to be put in a similar situation again.

The "statistically never" argument is a straw man along with "you need to worry about stuff that will likely happen like heart disease". In my case a gun is like fire insurance, which statistically I'll probably never need. And, I pay attention to things that are likely to happen as well which is why I work out, keep strategic lights on at night, force myself to eat green vegetables, and have my driveway coated every other year. They are all parts of the same responsible father/husband puzzle that includes firearms.

This is a difficult concept for many on the left, but most of us are pretty responsible and should be left to make our own decisions.

P.S.
If we're going to create straw men, your kid is far more likely to die from choking on a tiny piece of food than being harmed by a secure firearm. After a choking event with my first kid I learned the Heimlich maneuver and even where to cut into a trachea for a super urgent tracheotomy. Ridiculous? Statistically insignificant? So what, it's my kid and I like the insurance that knowledge gives me. Same holds true with my guns.

Yeah, Gramps, you fearful cunt. Not wanting young kids to live in a house full of guns shows what a pussy you really are. A REAL MAN would never go outside and remain vigilant to the imminent threats of...hold on, need to check my security cams to see what my dogs are barking about. BRB.

nafod wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote: My 9 year old knows what to do with all those and how to handle a firearm. Raising humans is so much more relaxing than raising sheep.

Have you played "William Tell" with him yet? Who goes first?

Fuck off an die you disgusting puke. If someone had suggested that to another father on this board I'd merely want them raped to death. Since it's you andf you should know better, I'm hoping for the opportunity to see you drug behind a garbage truck before being raped to death.