IGX

JohnDoe wrote: .... but the very real history of race is so far in the past (read: our lifetimes) that we should encourage everyone to move along quickly.

Right? I mean, these American blacks have, what 2 entire generations to get their shit together.... AND they got their fucking black president!

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

JohnDoe wrote: .... but the very real history of race is so far in the past (read: our lifetimes) that we should encourage everyone to move along quickly.

Right? I mean, these American blacks have, what 2 entire generations to get their shit together.... AND they got their fucking black president!

From a mental health standpoint...fuck yes we should encourage people to move on. But in the breadth of what is normative human behavior, you have Chinese people still pissed (as they should be) about Ghengis Khan.

What I react to on threads like this is not just the Dunning-Kruger shit show of everyone assuming their latent biases are not there, or refusing to see the biases in their heroes...what just disgusts me is the willful stupidity of refusing to acknowledge the fucking obvious. Truly, I have more respect for Kaz's take on "race" than most people I meet. He's fucking honest about his biases, makes no apologies for them and fully anticipates that there would be vicious blow-back from someone on the other side of the spectrum. That I can respect.

What I cannot abide is the self delusional notions in the debate here...that somehow, those who express that they are honestly aggrieved by language have no shred of a basis for their sensibilities or that somehow "the facts" are not on their side..

Ferfucks sake, If I burned and smeared shit on an American Flag outside PL54's house, I would be genuinely within my legal rights to do so (private property, neighborhood bylaws notwithstanding)...but how fucking stupid would it be if I were surprised to find PL was offended by my actions? You read the decisions and language Scalia used in his tenure on the bench and you're surprised to hear him called a racist?...Nigger Please.

Blaidd Drwg wrote: What I react to on threads like this is not just the Dunning-Kruger shit show of everyone assuming their latent biases are not there, or refusing to see the biases in their heroes...what just disgusts me is the willful stupidity of refusing to acknowledge the fucking obvious. Truly, I have more respect for Kaz's take on "race" than most people I meet. He's fucking honest about his biases, makes no apologies for them and fully anticipates that there would be vicious blow-back from someone on the other side of the spectrum. That I can respect.

What I cannot abide is the self delusional notions in the debate here...that somehow, those who express that they are honestly aggrieved by language have no shred of a basis for their sensibilities or that somehow "the facts" are not on their side..

Ferfucks sake, If I burned and smeared shit on an American Flag outside PL54's house, I would be genuinely within my legal rights to do so (private property, neighborhood bylaws notwithstanding)...but how fucking stupid would it be if I were surprised to find PL was offended by my actions? You read the decisions and language Scalia used in his tenure on the bench and you're surprised to hear him called a racist?...Nigger Please.

Thou doth protest too much. You made a claim and couldn't back it. Move on.

While not on topic (though any thread four pages long is typically long since off topic), I found the Harper's article below to be a fascinating examination of why we should forget 9/11 and the ways in which remembrance of past tragedies, affronts, crimes perpetuates them. Germane to our thread is the reverse racism(ish) of normal Americans being made to feel racist by the formerly oppressed, who have, understandably, never forgotten. I'd liken it to anti-Semitism in Germany, which I imagine has a strong basis in the overpowering memory of the Holocaust and the resentment of never being allowed to forget.

Scalia himself is a great example of racism in America. It's there, but it's in the data, the numbers, the charts. It's there w/ Scalia too- it's just hard to find. It's probably true for all of us, but, as a liberal indoctrinator of America's youth, I hope it's not in me!

http://harpers.org/archive/2011/08/after-911/

johno wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote: What I react to on threads like this is not just the Dunning-Kruger shit show of everyone assuming their latent biases are not there, or refusing to see the biases in their heroes...what just disgusts me is the willful stupidity of refusing to acknowledge the fucking obvious. Truly, I have more respect for Kaz's take on "race" than most people I meet. He's fucking honest about his biases, makes no apologies for them and fully anticipates that there would be vicious blow-back from someone on the other side of the spectrum. That I can respect.

What I cannot abide is the self delusional notions in the debate here...that somehow, those who express that they are honestly aggrieved by language have no shred of a basis for their sensibilities or that somehow "the facts" are not on their side..

Ferfucks sake, If I burned and smeared shit on an American Flag outside PL54's house, I would be genuinely within my legal rights to do so (private property, neighborhood bylaws notwithstanding)...but how fucking stupid would it be if I were surprised to find PL was offended by my actions? You read the decisions and language Scalia used in his tenure on the bench and you're surprised to hear him called a racist?...Nigger Please.

Thou doth protest too much. You made a claim and couldn't back it. Move on.

Son, you're more pathetic than Turd..and he's working at it.


I didn't make the claim, the fine counselor who some first person material did, I simply followed up with the thinking of many mainstream voices on the subject..(links and such truck...i know reading is hard) ...and then crushed the living fuck out of you delusional bigots......But whatever. I'm sure you can sell that shit to all your "black friends"

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Turdacious wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote: the notion that being a legal scholar gives you something important to say about racism by way of your background. This is nonsensical, we're talking about a reaction to social issues not a legal analysis.

Which is funny, because my original question was about legal analysis in the context of social issue (i.e. purported racism).

Ahhhh yes. The old, change the question bullshit. OF COURSE....It wasn't Scalia's inherent racism or bigoted language you were looking for. You wanted a legal scholar to break down the racist :LEGAL EFFECTS of his bigoted RULINGS.....as if somehow it's not racist language unless someone is directly harmed by the rulings (voting rights act gutting anyone? ) By way of this thinking, I can burn a cross in front of my neighbors house but my actions only become "racist" once I burn his actual house.

What a colossal waste of intellect you represent. I blame the papists.

More like the old trying to cover for the fact I did understand the question. Don't worry, you can blame the papists if you want.

Given that you have never to my knowledge asked a question in good faith that you actually wanted an answer to, you will have to excuse my disbelief that you think anyone buys that reframing the question bullshit.

Strains of Jeekishness I have not heard in a long time. How cute.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

JohnDoe wrote: .... but the very real history of race is so far in the past (read: our lifetimes) that we should encourage everyone to move along quickly.

Right? I mean, these American blacks have, what 2 entire generations to get their shit together.... AND they got their fucking black president!

Solid analysis. What's next? A nice meme?

Why was their family structure in better shape circa 1955 then, say, 2005?

Everyone's family structure was better in 1955.

TerryB wrote:Why was their family structure in better shape circa 1955 then, say, 2005?

The War on Poverty, the decline of marriage and crack.....maybe not in that order.

JohnDoe wrote:Everyone's family structure was better in 1955.

Says fucking who? Which outcomes are you measuring and against what?

TerryB wrote:Why was their family structure in better shape circa 1955 then, say, 2005?

According to the implications of TerryB's 'family structure' statement. That's the metric- it's self contained and a perfectly relevant and fairly accurate response.

Yes, you can dive into standards of living and poverty rates and education and cumulative wealth and and and and. But, his phrase 'family structure' implies questions of marriage and divorce in the black community (as though there is one and only one...). Divorce rates and/or single parent households over those fifty years have risen across races, which TerryB implied was unique to the black community. Maybe I should have said everyone's family structure is different, but I didn't.

I apologize for the lack of powerpoint, data, blood oaths, and any pretense to Guru-dom my statement implied.

Let the record show that I am not, in fact, butt hurt.

Yes I Have Balls wrote:

JohnDoe wrote: .... but the very real history of race is so far in the past (read: our lifetimes) that we should encourage everyone to move along quickly.

Right? I mean, these American blacks have, what 2 entire generations to get their shit together.... AND they got their fucking black president!

Your dial fails to mention the deadliest war in US history that was significantly about race nor does it mention the trillion dollar "war on poverty" I'm not in the mood to criticize blacks or to shout USAUSA, but I'll bet that there's never been a country in the history of the world that has done more to right such an egregious wrong.

Yet.......it seems that it's never enough. White Amurrikkka needs to do more more more to expunge its racial past. Its native born and immigrant population bears the indelible stain of hereditary guilt. I'm up for keeping up the fight but my guilt meter is pegging out at 0%.

I write this from Atlanta where amongst the racial ruins is a dynamic black working and professional class.

JohnDoe wrote:

TerryB wrote:Why was their family structure in better shape circa 1955 then, say, 2005?

According to the implications of TerryB's 'family structure' statement. That's the metric- it's self contained and a perfectly relevant and fairly accurate response.

Yes, you can dive into standards of living and poverty rates and education and cumulative wealth and and and and. But, his phrase 'family structure' implies questions of marriage and divorce in the black community (as though there is one and only one...). Divorce rates and/or single parent households over those fifty years have risen across races, which TerryB implied was unique to the black community. Maybe I should have said everyone's family structure is different, but I didn't.

I apologize for the lack of powerpoint, data, blood oaths, and any pretense to Guru-dom my statement implied.

Let the record show that I am not, in fact, butt hurt.

Fair enough.

Personally we waste too much energy on Marriage/two parent one parent bullshit. The social science data on this stuff is absolute crap.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:, but I'll bet that there's never been a country in the history of the world that has done more to right such an egregious wrong.

Yet.......it seems that it's never enough. White Amurrikkka needs to do more more more to expunge its racial past. Its native born and immigrant population bears the indelible stain of hereditary guilt. I'm up for keeping up the fight but my guilt meter is pegging out at 0%.

I write this from Atlanta where amongst the racial ruins is a dynamic black working and professional class.

is the issue our racial past, our is it the racial present?

as one small recent example, several people have recently suggested that the reason we see that we have an opiate epidemic today is because now white people are hooked.

dead man walking wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:, but I'll bet that there's never been a country in the history of the world that has done more to right such an egregious wrong.

Yet.......it seems that it's never enough. White Amurrikkka needs to do more more more to expunge its racial past. Its native born and immigrant population bears the indelible stain of hereditary guilt. I'm up for keeping up the fight but my guilt meter is pegging out at 0%.

I write this from Atlanta where amongst the racial ruins is a dynamic black working and professional class.

is the issue our racial past, our is it the racial present?

as one small recent example, several people have recently suggested that the reason we see that we have an opiate epidemic today is because now white people are hooked.

Nah...White people are just afraid of needles. Bitches.

dead man walking wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:, but I'll bet that there's never been a country in the history of the world that has done more to right such an egregious wrong.

Yet.......it seems that it's never enough. White Amurrikkka needs to do more more more to expunge its racial past. Its native born and immigrant population bears the indelible stain of hereditary guilt. I'm up for keeping up the fight but my guilt meter is pegging out at 0%.

I write this from Atlanta where amongst the racial ruins is a dynamic black working and professional class.

is the issue our racial past, our is it the racial present?

as one small recent example, several people have recently suggested that the reason we see that we have an opiate epidemic today is because now white people are hooked.

While not religious, I have started to think of slavery as America's original sin. And although other countries may have done less, it may be because it was less of an issue. Just under five million slaves in 1860 dwarfs anything comparable. I often consider the Holocaust to be a terrible comparison in any real argument because it is a singularity and I've started to think of American chattel slavery and its subsequent long shadow to be a singularity as well. I've also been wondering a little about it as a conservation of energy sort of thing, e.g. racial 'stuff' in America can neither be created nor destroyed. It just changes form.

JohnDoe wrote:American chattel slavery and its subsequent long shadow . . . a conservation of energy sort of thing, e.g. racial 'stuff' in America can neither be created nor destroyed. It just changes form.

any buddhists here?

when considering slavery and the racial strife that endures, the concept of karma comes to mind.

i don't know diddly about buddhism, but my impression is that karma reverberates for generations. our forebears' decision to enslave people vibrates forcefully today and will for years, perhaps centuries, into the future.

Not a Buddhist, but there have been interesting recent protests in India that combine the caste system with quotas in public sector employment for an interesting comparison to affirmative action.

dead man walking wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:, but I'll bet that there's never been a country in the history of the world that has done more to right such an egregious wrong.

Yet.......it seems that it's never enough. White Amurrikkka needs to do more more more to expunge its racial past. Its native born and immigrant population bears the indelible stain of hereditary guilt. I'm up for keeping up the fight but my guilt meter is pegging out at 0%.

I write this from Atlanta where amongst the racial ruins is a dynamic black working and professional class.

is the issue our racial past, our is it the racial present?

as one small recent example, several people have recently suggested that the reason we see that we have an opiate epidemic today is because now white people are hooked.

Unfortunately, I'm at the end of another Bux recommended book and can no longer distinguish between was, is, or will be - if that is or ever was possible.

Physical self, emotional self, and tribal self reign over good sense and logic in most cases so I'm not too optimistic about race relations in the short term. My personal decision is to support open doors for minorities everywhere and to accept 0% hereditary guilt.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:Unfortunately, I'm at the end of another Bux recommended book and can no longer distinguish between was, is, or will be - if that is or ever was possible.

Physical self, emotional self, and tribal self reign over good sense and logic in most cases so I'm not too optimistic about race relations in the short term. My personal decision is to support open doors for minorities everywhere and to accept 0% hereditary guilt.

not sure i understand the mind-bending reading material bux is fucking you up with.

you second paragraph strikes me as sound.

i'm inclined to think we're as tribal as the medieval primitives in the mideast. we've got a glossier veneer, though.

LOL. How long after Britain did the US end slavery? 30 years or something? LMAO. Where did slavery originate and where is it still going on?

RIP Scalia. Dude was great

Herv100 wrote:LOL. How long after Britain did the US end slavery? 30 years or something? LMAO. Where did slavery originate and where is it still going on?

I hear you...and yet, for just a moment take away the US Yankee White-bread Cracker is BAD and Po Stepped on Victim Negro is Good rhetoric and contemplate your statement in a different context.

When did you stop beating your wife? About 3 months after my neighbor stopped beating his.

When did the shitbag caliphates of N Africa you stop the practice of Female Genital Mutilation? About 15 years after the ones in Dubai stopped. I would argue

Two things can be mutually true.

Slavery is normative human behavior. That shit has been a part of what we do for as long as there has been a hominid "We"

Slavery is such a pervasively shitty thing to do to a people that the effects and emotions from can be expected to run hot for quite some time afterwards, especially in the context of fairly obvious and pervasive bigotry...the very least part of which emanates from the bench.

I'm not suggesting anyone check their privilege, personally I revel in mine, cause it's awesome. But I do not for a second delude myself into thinking there aren't a lot of people in the world who drew some real short straws in life and they have some legit reasons to get wound up about it. No...it's not my job to fix it for them, but it's certainly not a LOL that it is a life and death reality for a great many Americans.