Brexit
Moderator: Dux
Re: Brexit
The whole thing made me think a little of The Black Swan and systems that are prone to huge shocks. Have to wait and watch and see if the EU was a resilient system or a fragile one.
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Brexit
SubClaw wrote:If you really think being outisde the EU is going to stop the tidal wave of immigrants you are way stupider than you appear.TerryB wrote:How do you feel about your great, old country being overrun with Muslims?
They're going to keep coming, breeding at a much higher rate than local population and sucking what's left of the UK's tit dry until they have sufficient numbers to win a few elections.
You lot should be getting used to the idea of seeing your granddaughter's wedding taking place at a mosque. It's bound to happen all over Europe (the continent, not just the EU) within a couple of generations.

Yesterday's vote reminds me why democracy does not work. People are too stupid and too easily manipulated to know what is best for them anyway. Misplaced protest votes got us into this ridiculous situation. Britain has spoken, and it turns out we're thick as fuck.
BTW to the Muslim comments too; Muslims are not really the immigrants that were the focal point of most peoples fears. That's your own projections there.
Don't try too hard, don't not try too hard
Re: Brexit
"Camp of the saints" was published in France in the 70s.Interesting to read and compare to what is happening in Europe now.
You`ll toughen up.Unless you have a serious medical condition commonly refered to as
"being a pussy".
"being a pussy".
Re: Brexit
I'm not american, I live in Europe and I don't listen to any politician (I admit it's gonna be funny watching that Trump asshole ruling the Western world).odin wrote:Yes that will happen. Already there are no go zones in British cities because of Muslims. I mean, I've never been myself but Donald Trump told me so it's probably correct.
Never voted in my whole life. And I don't see it changing in the future. Basically, I just don't care.Yesterday's vote reminds me why democracy does not work. People are too stupid and too easily manipulated to know what is best for them anyway. Misplaced protest votes got us into this ridiculous situation. Britain has spoken, and it turns out we're thick as fuck.
When things become unbearable wherever I'm living, I'll just get the fuck out of there.
I wasn't talking about "most people's fears" in the UK (I don't give a fuck about that or about them), I was talking about realities. Talk to people in Sweden and tell me it's not happening exactly as I said. Even in certain parts of Germany a few native germans are proposing to ban the Oktoberfest so as not to offend "our muslim residents". For fuck's sake...BTW to the Muslim comments too; Muslims are not really the immigrants that were the focal point of most peoples fears. That's your own projections there.
I don't care about your race, creed, sexual inclinations or political ideas. I'm in favor of controlled immigration and diversity. But, if you migrate to another country, don't try to turn it into another version of the country you're running from. It's you who have to adapt.
That's what I'm talking about.
That said, UK can go to Hell or become the new superpower of the planet. Either way, I don't care.
You ever seen a cycling plumber who wrestles with small calves, forearms and neck? Didn't think so.
Re: Brexit
Fair enough, agree with some of those points although I think the threat of Islam taking over is way over stated. But if you want to talk about Sweden you seriously need to start a fucking Swexit thread and get off our Great British thread you borderless european fuck.SubClaw wrote:I'm not american, I live in Europe and I don't listen to any politician (I admit it's gonna be funny watching that Trump asshole ruling the Western world).odin wrote:Yes that will happen. Already there are no go zones in British cities because of Muslims. I mean, I've never been myself but Donald Trump told me so it's probably correct.
Never voted in my whole life. And I don't see it changing in the future. Basically, I just don't care.Yesterday's vote reminds me why democracy does not work. People are too stupid and too easily manipulated to know what is best for them anyway. Misplaced protest votes got us into this ridiculous situation. Britain has spoken, and it turns out we're thick as fuck.
When things become unbearable wherever I'm living, I'll just get the fuck out of there.
I wasn't talking about "most people's fears" in the UK (I don't give a fuck about that or about them), I was talking about realities. Talk to people in Sweden and tell me it's not happening exactly as I said. Even in certain parts of Germany a few native germans are proposing to ban the Oktoberfest so as not to offend "our muslim residents". For fuck's sake...BTW to the Muslim comments too; Muslims are not really the immigrants that were the focal point of most peoples fears. That's your own projections there.
I don't care about your race, creed, sexual inclinations or political ideas. I'm in favor of controlled immigration and diversity. But, if you migrate to another country, don't try to turn it into another version of the country you're running from. It's you who have to adapt.
That's what I'm talking about.
That said, UK can go to Hell or become the new superpower of the planet. Either way, I don't care.
Don't try too hard, don't not try too hard
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
Not sure why Brexit is such a big deal. The UK maintained a separate currency, doesn't really share a border with any EU country, and it's still in the best interest of both the EU and the UK to maintain trade relations. This doesn't seem like a divorce, it's more like a roommate moving out.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 11367
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:08 pm
Re: Brexit
Come on. Are you reading nothing about this? Do you think being on the outside of a free trade agreement is good? New tariffs and taxes are good? A new huge economic competitor incented to punish members who leave?Turdacious wrote:Not sure why Brexit is such a big deal.
If nothing else, it adds huge variance to a situation where Britain sat near the top. For no good reason. Just dumb.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
I have followed the budgetary troubles that southern and eastern European countries are facing, and the impact those troubles are having on the fiscally stronger countries (troubles the UK has largely avoided because they use different trade partners and trade patterns); the use of the migrant/refugee situation as a negotiation tactic (which has limited impact on the UK because geographical advantage); and the fact that the Brits never really committed to the EU in the first place (didn't join the currency union).Grandpa's Spells wrote:Come on. Are you reading nothing about this? Do you think being on the outside of a free trade agreement is good? New tariffs and taxes are good? A new huge economic competitor incented to punish members who leave?Turdacious wrote:Not sure why Brexit is such a big deal.
If nothing else, it adds huge variance to a situation where Britain sat near the top. For no good reason. Just dumb.
The UK is still too attractive a trade partner to materially punish; I don't see a scenario where they Brits don't make a trade deal with teh EU very quickly. And let's be honest-- 2000 or so years of history have shown that the Brits are not really European.
Is there something I'm missing?
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: Brexit
TTIP anyone?Grandpa's Spells wrote:Come on. Are you reading nothing about this? Do you think being on the outside of a free trade agreement is good? New tariffs and taxes are good? A new huge economic competitor incented to punish members who leave?Turdacious wrote:Not sure why Brexit is such a big deal.
If nothing else, it adds huge variance to a situation where Britain sat near the top. For no good reason. Just dumb.
You ever seen a cycling plumber who wrestles with small calves, forearms and neck? Didn't think so.
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
The TTIP provides the biggest incentives for countries that are democratizing-- not an issue for the UK.SubClaw wrote:TTIP anyone?Grandpa's Spells wrote:Come on. Are you reading nothing about this? Do you think being on the outside of a free trade agreement is good? New tariffs and taxes are good? A new huge economic competitor incented to punish members who leave?Turdacious wrote:Not sure why Brexit is such a big deal.
If nothing else, it adds huge variance to a situation where Britain sat near the top. For no good reason. Just dumb.
The economically stronger EU countries have always seemed pretty pragmatic-- a trade union with the UK is in their best interest (especially given the UK strengths in energy and finance).
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
A most excellent and succinct analysis of the Labour Party.nafod wrote:
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
Does anyone here really think that the EU is really willing to punish their biggest export market?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... pean_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ed_Kingdom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... pean_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... ed_Kingdom
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... -too-soon/House Speaker Paul D. Ryan is calling on the administration to start talking to the United Kingdom about a new trade agreement to ensure “a smooth” relationship after the country parts ways with the European Union [...] Ryan (R-Wis.) is advocating being aggressive early in establishing deals with Britain.
Ultimately, Obama said, he doesn't "anticipate that there is going to be major cataclysmic changes as a consequence of this."
"Keep in mind that Norway is not a member of the European Union, but Norway is one of our closest allies," Obama added. "They align themselves on almost every issue with Europe and us. They are a place that is continually supporting the kinds of initiatives internationally that we support, and, if over the course of what is going to be at least a two-year negotiation between England and Europe, Great Britain ends up being affiliated to Europe like Norway is, the average person is not going to notice a big change."
Even Trump will come around when someone explains to him the effect of tariffs on tourism.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: Brexit
Did anyone think the tightly interconnected countries of Europe prior to WWI/WWII would blow themselves up and go to war for essentially the next 40 years?Turdacious wrote:Does anyone here really think that the EU is really willing to punish their biggest export market?
Not saying the next big war is coming, but depending on people acting solely in their own economic self-interest is a poor bet. Brexit reeks of emotional decision making. I'm not a super Ralph Peters fan, but this article has always resonated for me. I know I have cited it before.
http://armedforcesjournal.com/wars-irra ... otivators/The fundamental dictum guiding our diplomats and analysts has been that states and human collectives act in their own rational self-interest. This is utterly wrong, leading us to convoluted analyses that seek to justify our assumption, while guaranteeing diplomatic failure: It’s difficult to defeat an enemy or even negotiate with a partner whose motivation you refuse to understand.
...Instead of clinging to the failed model of rational self-interest as an analytical tool, substitute “emotional self-interest.” It’s akin to switching on a light. If, instead of fabricating logical sequences of calculation where none exist, we accept that individuals, peoples and states act in ways that are emotionally satisfying, no end of knotty analytical problems dissolve. Whether we look at why we vote for the candidates we do, why a terrorist straps on a suicide belt, why Hutus massacred 1 million Tutsis with cold steel or why states blunder into war, assessing the degree of emotional satisfaction gained from the act is as enlightening as seeking logic in such deeds is frustrating.
... we can witness, on any given day, how powerful emotion can be as a galvanizing factor, how dominant emotional self-interest is in human affairs and how passion trumps practicality, while pride overrules rational self-interest.
It isn’t the human mind that’s the killer. It’s the human heart.
Don’t believe everything you think.
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
Re WWI/II-- fair point; very few people foresaw the consequences the more virulent forms of socialism would reap. I don't see this leading to war-- which European country has the logistical capacity to maintain a sustained conflict?nafod wrote:Did anyone think the tightly interconnected countries of Europe prior to WWI/WWII would blow themselves up and go to war for essentially the next 40 years?Turdacious wrote:Does anyone here really think that the EU is really willing to punish their biggest export market?
Not saying the next big war is coming, but depending on people acting solely in their own economic self-interest is a poor bet. Brexit reeks of emotional decision making. I'm not a super Ralph Peters fan, but this article has always resonated for me. I know I have cited it before.http://armedforcesjournal.com/wars-irra ... otivators/The fundamental dictum guiding our diplomats and analysts has been that states and human collectives act in their own rational self-interest. This is utterly wrong, leading us to convoluted analyses that seek to justify our assumption, while guaranteeing diplomatic failure: It’s difficult to defeat an enemy or even negotiate with a partner whose motivation you refuse to understand.
...Instead of clinging to the failed model of rational self-interest as an analytical tool, substitute “emotional self-interest.” It’s akin to switching on a light. If, instead of fabricating logical sequences of calculation where none exist, we accept that individuals, peoples and states act in ways that are emotionally satisfying, no end of knotty analytical problems dissolve. Whether we look at why we vote for the candidates we do, why a terrorist straps on a suicide belt, why Hutus massacred 1 million Tutsis with cold steel or why states blunder into war, assessing the degree of emotional satisfaction gained from the act is as enlightening as seeking logic in such deeds is frustrating.
... we can witness, on any given day, how powerful emotion can be as a galvanizing factor, how dominant emotional self-interest is in human affairs and how passion trumps practicality, while pride overrules rational self-interest.
It isn’t the human mind that’s the killer. It’s the human heart.
Really being in the EU requires currency union, which never happened with the UK. The Brits get lower exposure to SE European fiscal instability, which is a massive benefit; they also get more border control and more control over immigration and work visa programs. Pretty much every other negative consequence can be taken care of with a few trade and reciprocal visa deals which, in a world where inflation scares everybody, is in everybody's best interest.
The UK has avoided the Paulie problem, which makes this pretty simple.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGAmPRxV48[/youtube]
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: Brexit
I think the EU is going to do this with Britain to discourage the next bailer-outer.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju4vhscaYII[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju4vhscaYII[/youtube]
Don’t believe everything you think.
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 21247
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Brexit
The idea that the EU powers (Germany and France-- the 4th and 6th largest economies in the world) care more about broke/small countries than the 5th largest economy in the world is laughable.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
-
- Sergeant Commanding
- Posts: 8034
- Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:04 am
- Location: Deep in a well
Re: Brexit
It's worth reposting IMO. They're really words to live by and can be extended to almost all of the conflicts we have in our lives far outside of politics.nafod wrote:Did anyone think the tightly interconnected countries of Europe prior to WWI/WWII would blow themselves up and go to war for essentially the next 40 years?Turdacious wrote:Does anyone here really think that the EU is really willing to punish their biggest export market?
Not saying the next big war is coming, but depending on people acting solely in their own economic self-interest is a poor bet. Brexit reeks of emotional decision making. I'm not a super Ralph Peters fan, but this article has always resonated for me. I know I have cited it before.http://armedforcesjournal.com/wars-irra ... otivators/The fundamental dictum guiding our diplomats and analysts has been that states and human collectives act in their own rational self-interest. This is utterly wrong, leading us to convoluted analyses that seek to justify our assumption, while guaranteeing diplomatic failure: It’s difficult to defeat an enemy or even negotiate with a partner whose motivation you refuse to understand.
...Instead of clinging to the failed model of rational self-interest as an analytical tool, substitute “emotional self-interest.” It’s akin to switching on a light. If, instead of fabricating logical sequences of calculation where none exist, we accept that individuals, peoples and states act in ways that are emotionally satisfying, no end of knotty analytical problems dissolve. Whether we look at why we vote for the candidates we do, why a terrorist straps on a suicide belt, why Hutus massacred 1 million Tutsis with cold steel or why states blunder into war, assessing the degree of emotional satisfaction gained from the act is as enlightening as seeking logic in such deeds is frustrating.
... we can witness, on any given day, how powerful emotion can be as a galvanizing factor, how dominant emotional self-interest is in human affairs and how passion trumps practicality, while pride overrules rational self-interest.
It isn’t the human mind that’s the killer. It’s the human heart.
I'm not qualified to judge the long term objective rationality of the decision - nor are 95% of those with strong opinions either way. From an emotional self-interest perspective, I've read that many Brits felt they were losing control over immigration and that the Regulation State in Brussels was burrowing down into very personal areas of their lives. So, 52% of Brits said enough is enough.
Now assorted Progressives and elites are excoriating them for being xenophobes and stupid which is a very bigoted and lazy analysis in itself. All for the crime of wanting more autonomy. I've yet to see one Progressive or elite suggest that maybe bureaucrats in Brussels should dial things back a bit, that maybe, just maybe, they were the ones who'd gone a bit too far. Instead they just condemn the heretics. Very similar to those who worship at the alter of Washington, DC.
Go Brexit Go!
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party
-
- Lifetime IGer
- Posts: 11367
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:08 pm
Re: Brexit
And Boris Johnson boldly decides not to lead.
Heh:
Heh:
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
Re: Brexit
Another Brexpert dog who caught the car. Heh.Grandpa's Spells wrote:And Boris Johnson boldly decides not to lead.
Heh:
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Brexit
Sweden is just like kettlebells,you talk about running or powerlifting-why not add something irrelevant about the bells or Sweden?odin wrote:Fair enough, agree with some of those points although I think the threat of Islam taking over is way over stated. But if you want to talk about Sweden you seriously need to start a fucking Swexit thread and get off our Great British thread you borderless european fuck.SubClaw wrote:I'm not american, I live in Europe and I don't listen to any politician (I admit it's gonna be funny watching that Trump asshole ruling the Western world).odin wrote:Yes that will happen. Already there are no go zones in British cities because of Muslims. I mean, I've never been myself but Donald Trump told me so it's probably correct.
Never voted in my whole life. And I don't see it changing in the future. Basically, I just don't care.Yesterday's vote reminds me why democracy does not work. People are too stupid and too easily manipulated to know what is best for them anyway. Misplaced protest votes got us into this ridiculous situation. Britain has spoken, and it turns out we're thick as fuck.
When things become unbearable wherever I'm living, I'll just get the fuck out of there.
I wasn't talking about "most people's fears" in the UK (I don't give a fuck about that or about them), I was talking about realities. Talk to people in Sweden and tell me it's not happening exactly as I said. Even in certain parts of Germany a few native germans are proposing to ban the Oktoberfest so as not to offend "our muslim residents". For fuck's sake...BTW to the Muslim comments too; Muslims are not really the immigrants that were the focal point of most peoples fears. That's your own projections there.
I don't care about your race, creed, sexual inclinations or political ideas. I'm in favor of controlled immigration and diversity. But, if you migrate to another country, don't try to turn it into another version of the country you're running from. It's you who have to adapt.
That's what I'm talking about.
That said, UK can go to Hell or become the new superpower of the planet. Either way, I don't care.
You`ll toughen up.Unless you have a serious medical condition commonly refered to as
"being a pussy".
"being a pussy".
Re: Brexit
Just watchin' the showHerv100 wrote:Guns and Brexit got the statists feeling some type of way

Don’t believe everything you think.