IGX

I will go with the likely, unpopular move of sign and drive lease. Hyundai and KIA are killing it and as long as you can deal with a 4 banger, you're in good shape, for cheap. Now to be clear, we own our Santa Fe (loaded and the last year of the V6) and will never 'buy' one of their smaller engine Hyundai's but the little Veloster Turbo I lease costs me next to nothing and I have whaled on that thing. Liberal/Lezbo puns aside, we really wanted a Subaru, but they just were not nearly as nice....I mean not even close.

Leasing gets a raw deal....if your credit is good enough, get into something and then 3 years later figure out what you want to do as your financial position matures....JMO.

We may need to change our tagline to "overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance and culturally lesbian."

The Venerable Bogatir X wrote:I will go with the likely, unpopular move of sign and drive lease. Hyundai and KIA are killing it and as long as you can deal with a 4 banger, you're in good shape, for cheap. Now to be clear, we own our Santa Fe (loaded and the last year of the V6) and will never 'buy' one of their smaller engine Hyundai's but the little Veloster Turbo I lease costs me next to nothing and I have whaled on that thing. Liberal/Lezbo puns aside, we really wanted a Subaru, but they just were not nearly as nice....I mean not even close.

Leasing gets a raw deal....if your credit is good enough, get into something and then 3 years later figure out what you want to do as your financial position matures....JMO.

I've thought of that but don't know the particulars of leasing. Credit is good.

Dunn wrote: Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

I have a 16 Suburban, and have driven the equivalent Expedition EL. I have to occasionally tow a horse trailer and takelong distance trips in it.

The Suburban has it on comfort and aesthetics, inside out out, the Expedition has it on power train and better third row seating. I did drive the Suburban through shitty weather and it was a rock solid in ice, snow, and slush with a 4WH...HOWEVER, the build quality is kind of shitty, with the folding seats rubbing on the sides of the cabin leaving permanent marks in the third row.

The Subaru conundrum...every other car in Colorado (or any non GM home state with snow) is a Subaru forester or outback. In Michigan, you saw some domestic 4WD SUV action and trucks.

As far as used Tahoe/Suburban/etc...my brother in law says go 2006 and lower if the reliability is there, 2007-2011 were apparently some shitty years.

I drive far to much for leases to be worth a shit. I leased a 03 Honda Pilot, which was a solid vehicle, IMO, and almost got raped with the mileage

I almost picked up a 77 Blazer this weekend, there's one sitting on M30 in Michigan that looked solid enough so I wouldn't care if I had to rebuild some of the shit in it.

War Rig time.

Go with the Subaru. I haven't owned one myself but I have a Toyota Camry now and had a Honda Civic before that. I don't see myself driving anything but Japanese.
Newer Foresters are more SUV than wagon.

Blaidd Drwg wrote: If only we'd get the damn Accord wagon back over here, preferably minus vtec and with AWD.

Crosstour?
Not sure about the VTEC but AWD and station wagon size. Looks better than a wagon, too.

Pinky wrote:

Dunn wrote: Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

Turdacious wrote:

Pinky wrote:

Dunn wrote: Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

No doubt. It's not the kids...it's the friends and dogs and bikes and rackets and skis and all the multitudes of gear.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Turdacious wrote:

Pinky wrote:

Dunn wrote: Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

No doubt. It's not the kids...it's the friends and dogs and bikes and rackets and skis and all the multitudes of gear.

Bingo. If it were just the three of us and little to no luggage it wouldn't be an issue. But couple the packing, along with the pups and it turns into a can of sardines. A pickup with a camper shell would alleviate that. While 160k miles isn't that bad, I would feel better if the travel vehicle had less miles. Since I would be covering the bed anyhow, I figure an suv is the smarter choice.

Toyota 4Runner. Any year.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPMkx9k7c4M[/youtube]

Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

The weird thing to me is that if you have 3 kids in car seat age, you literally can't obey car seat laws without a 3rd row of seating. That is insane to me.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

How much of that actually happens these days? I played team sports as a kid, and I don't remember my folks doing that, despite having wagons and minivans.

I have a Ford Escape. Good milage for an suv.. 27mpg on my commute, but it's not actually big enough for for anything extra once we had the second kid. Stroller plus groceries in the back and we are full. Day trip stuff we are jam packed. If you might like a 2nd kid, and have outside hobbies you need a much bigger vehicle than you think. 2 car seats and a little kid travel toys/snacks fills that back seat. We plan to move up to an explorer, maybe even an actual full size van.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

The weird thing to me is that if you have 3 kids in car seat age, you literally can't obey car seat laws without a 3rd row of seating. That is insane to me.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

How much of that actually happens these days? I played team sports as a kid, and I don't remember my folks doing that, despite having wagons and minivans.

And you probably walked to practice by yourself too. Allowing a kid to do that now will get Children's Services called.

The fact that kids now have to be in car seats until they're 15 and a half would make the carpooling I remember as a kid impractical.

Turdacious wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Definitely. The backseat has certainly gotten smaller with the car seat sitting back there.

I have a 15-year-old BMW 3-series, and the back seat is so small that my daughter's car seat only fits in the middle. I think about replacing the car on the grounds that it doesn't have enough room. But then I realize that no one other than my daughter uses the back seat of my car, and she's never with me when I need to carry more stuff than I can fit in the trunk.

People overstate the amount of extra space you need when you have a kid. I can see how multiple kids would require more space, but most people who buy a bigger car after having one kid just wanted an excuse to buy a bigger car.

The weird thing to me is that if you have 3 kids in car seat age, you literally can't obey car seat laws without a 3rd row of seating. That is insane to me.

That changes when she's old enough to get involved in group activities (soccer practice, etc...) and ferrying other kidlets becomes a reality. 10-1 it won't be your decision either.

How much of that actually happens these days? I played team sports as a kid, and I don't remember my folks doing that, despite having wagons and minivans.

And you probably walked to practice by yourself too. Allowing a kid to do that now will get Children's Services called.

A legitimate local political issue is the scheduling of all weather soccer fields. The factions breaking into the kids teams versus adult co-rec teams with losers having to travel up to 30-40 miles across one of the worst traffic corridors in the country for weekly practices. thankfully, my kids can walk or ride to local fields. As soon as the boy got good enough to play on a Select team I put him in BJJ.

Honda CR-V. Loved mine. Had to sell it when we had kid #3 and became a minivan family.
Very reliable, lots of usable space for its size, easy to park because it's not that big. Reeks of Honda quality, even if you get the base model.
Only downside is the mpg could be better. Otherwise it's perfect for a family with 1-2 young kids and the stuff they have to lug around.

I can second the Subaru recommendtions. I have the Impreza sport. The Crosstrek is basically the exact same car, just lifted a few inches. We just got my wife a Forester. We did the debate between the Forester and Outback, but the Forester is less expensive.
Cars that were a little more expensive we considered were the Jeep Cherokee and Ford Edge
Cars that are about the same price we considered were the Ford Escape and Jeep Renegade.

The Renegade is not only a Fiat piece of shit, but has no cargo space and Jeep should be embarrassed asking what they do for those cars.
On paper the Escape is about the same size, but the Forester is roomier in the front.

The thing with the Subaru is that their AWD system is better than those other 4, which are really FWD and electronically engage AWD when necessary), yet the Subie still gets better mileage.

Hey Shaf, I drove the new Lincoln Navigator during a sales event. Wait for it and take it out for a spin. Amazing. Also drove the Continental. Also Amazing.

Lease if you can Dunn, honestly about 80% of the people I sell to should.

Meh. Soccer and LAX are garbage sports, coached by idiots and running injury rates of 2-3x that of peewee football for the equivalent ages.

Lax is like Canadian hockey for Ivy League wannabes who want to pay triple the fees for a kids sport

Will definitely check out leasing options. Don't know much about how it works so I gotta do some research.

Will prob check out some rides in the next month.