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When certain people getting elected leads to your health insurance being $1500+ per month, when it used to be $500, some folks might be salty about that, even with family.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Herv100 wrote:

dead man walking wrote:because of this:

The recent series of FBI leaks are particularly worrisome because they raise the prospect of a state security agency equipped with the full resources and investigative might of the federal government working to interfere in the elections. The FBI is so powerful — it can, with court approval, issue subpoenas, tap phones, intercept emails and conduct round-the-clock surveillance — that even a small coterie of its agents can find ways of influencing the political process.

that's old-time iron curtain behavior or what you might expect to see in an autocratic middle-eastern country.

the silence from the right in response to the behavior of vigilante agents is curious. next time, your ox could be gored.

the FBI was great when they didn't recommend charges, and now they're bad when they re-open it when new evidence came to light?

This the most incredibly stupid argument.

Herv is remarkably stupid.

Turdacious wrote:

syaigh wrote:Remember when polite people used to avoid talking about religion and politics in mixed company? Its been a long time. When i was a kid it was considered bad manners to ask people who they voted for.

I was raised that way too, but also remember my grandpa's advice. He lived in a suburb of Chicago (outside of Cook County) and worked in Chicago in the 60's through 80's. His advice was that having a Republican bumper sticker on your car would get a brick through your window in the city, and vice versa.

my father and brother were both active republicans. while watching football, i would cheerfully insult them and they would happily insult me in return.

my mother, who tooks things seriously, would mutter and swear. younger siblings would goad and taunt us.

those were good times.

dead man walking wrote:because of this:

The recent series of FBI leaks are particularly worrisome because they raise the prospect of a state security agency equipped with the full resources and investigative might of the federal government working to interfere in the elections. The FBI is so powerful — it can, with court approval, issue subpoenas, tap phones, intercept emails and conduct round-the-clock surveillance — that even a small coterie of its agents can find ways of influencing the political process.

that's old-time iron curtain behavior or what you might expect to see in an autocratic middle-eastern country.

the silence from the right in response to the behavior of vigilante agents is curious. next time, your ox could be gored.

Is Vox just now realizing all-knowing, all-powerful, federal agencies operating without effective Congressional oversight pose a problem? Better late than never, although I doubt the author's sincerity given their long history of using anything and everything purely for short-term partisan gain.

This has long been a problem for conservatives, but Rand lost and now we're dealing with other issues. It doesn't mean this is off the table, but it's fallen far down the list in terms of hills to die on, for now.

The blurb you quoted also says the FBI can...WITH COURT APPROVAL....so, there's the oversight. Are agents seizing information outside court-approved channels, then leaking it or what? Either way, it's problematic.

Let me know when Vox, in all its esteemed concern for constitutional principles, decides limiting the federal government's authority makes sense.

Hmmm, FBI agents influencing the political process...the AG and Bill Clinton have a private meeting on the tarmac at a critical juncture in the investigation of Hillary...IRS targets TEA Party organizations...Podesta has an insider guy at JD...immigration laws scoffed at...Comey does weird Comey shit, etc, etc x 1,000.

It's out of control and the genie isn't going back into the bottle anytime soon, probably never. Rand was our last best chance. When it comes to reeling in the power of the state, Trump will be bad and Clinton a disaster.

syaigh wrote:Remember when polite people used to avoid talking about religion and politics in mixed company? Its been a long time. When i was a kid it was considered bad manners to ask people who they voted for.

Sounds awful. The fuck are you supposed to talk about if anything that might upset someone is off limits?

Herv100 wrote:When certain people getting elected leads to your health insurance being $1500+ per month, when it used to be $500, some folks might be salty about that, even with family.

Some might say you should blame individuals of a certain ideological stripe who block the possibility of single-payer healthcare that's cheaper and more effective in every other civilized nation.

milosz wrote:

Herv100 wrote:When certain people getting elected leads to your health insurance being $1500+ per month, when it used to be $500, some folks might be salty about that, even with family.

Some might say you should blame individuals of a certain ideological stripe who block the possibility of single-payer healthcare that's cheaper and more effective in every other civilized nation.

The solution to all Progressive problems is more Progressivism.

If you think health care is expensive now, just wait till it's free. And not just with rationing & increased wait times. I have relatives in a "free" system, and they pay when shit gets real.

milosz wrote:

Herv100 wrote:When certain people getting elected leads to your health insurance being $1500+ per month, when it used to be $500, some folks might be salty about that, even with family.

Some might say you should blame individuals of a certain ideological stripe who block the possibility of single-payer healthcare that's cheaper and more effective in every other civilized nation.

From the same clowns who told us all Obamacare would be cheaper. From the same clowns who will not be waiting months for a new hip (do you really need one? you are 72? How about a pain pill?), a cataract surgery, or a shunt like the rest of us.

We can no more be the world's policeman then we can be the world's indigent emergency clinic.

Yup, it's awful, that's why we pay vast amounts more for mediocre-at-best healthcare, because our system is the only way to go.

Ahh, the party of "facts are stupid things."

DrDonkeyLove wrote:IRS targets TEA Party organizations.

you make my point. conservative acted like they hads wasp nests implanted in their rectums when this came out.

fbi leaks dubious clinton shit, not a peep.

I'm surprised Milosz. You are often pretty savvy but in this case you present a curious naivety.

Trump is a stooge
The Southern Strategy is such a bumbling failure, the RNC can't help but continue it
The non issue of abortion is continually bandied about
Nobody is reducing government
Nobody is funding the VA and veteran programs
We have huge numbers of combat experienced people floating around
Hillary is maybe the single most distasteful presidential candidate to ever make the ballot AFTER Trump
The political elites are rubbing the people's nose in shit
The ACA has made healthcare worse for many
Political cronyism is at a high water mark
The TPP will pass and international corporations will start to sue small municipalities (Nestle) that don't allow them essentially free access to their resources

The list is endless

milosz wrote:Yup, it's awful, that's why we pay vast amounts more for mediocre-at-best healthcare, because our system is the only way to go.

Ahh, the party of "facts are stupid things."

Heres some facts. In 2009 as a single male in his late twenties, I had a plan that was $110 a month with a $1500 deductible. I got two knee scopes from a Chicago Bears/Bulls doctor(not exactly mediocre care) that year and paid maybe $2200 total out of pocket. After Obamacare passed, I got a letter from my insurance company that they were ceasing operations because the ACA deemed their plans illegal.

I think you're around that age and single, what are your premiums and deductible now? Let me guess, you can't afford it and just take the tax hit.

dead man walking wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:IRS targets TEA Party organizations.

you make my point. conservative acted like they hads wasp nests implanted in their rectums when this came out.

fbi leaks dubious clinton shit, not a peep.

And you didn't make a peep when the Watergate leaks happened. Balance pertains.

false equivalency, i.e. email does not = watergate

didn't know deep throat was fbi

justifying one wrong by citing another is both illogical and stupid (by the way, how did felt know all that stuff? his info didn't come from an official investigation did it? people did quarrel with j edgar's intrusive agency)

going back 45 years to make your apologist argument is weaker than a kettlebell strongman

dead man walking wrote:false equivalency, i.e. email does not = watergate

didn't know deep throat was fbi

justifying one wrong by citing another is both illogical and stupid (by the way, how did felt know all that stuff? his info didn't come from an official investigation did it? people did quarrel with j edgar's intrusive agency)

going back 45 years to make your apologist argument is weaker than a kettlebell strongman

I don't pretend to be ignorant about how the game is played.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I'm surprised Milosz. You are often pretty savvy but in this case you present a curious naivety.

About healthcare? We spend more for shittier outcomes, those are simple facts.

The ACA was a bad idea, because all it did was further entrench the system that provides poor service and costs too much, forcing me to buy in. It does appear to be reining in healthcare costs overall to some extent but the only logical system for a first world nation is some kind of single-payer.

milosz wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I'm surprised Milosz. You are often pretty savvy but in this case you present a curious naivety.

About healthcare? We spend more for shittier outcomes, those are simple facts.

The ACA was a bad idea, because all it did was further entrench the system that provides poor service and costs too much, forcing me to buy in. It does appear to be reining in healthcare costs overall to some extent but the only logical system for a first world nation is some kind of single-payer.

Healthcare costs are where they are because of government involvement in price setting and no consumer visibility on price. When the government starts setting artificially low prices for Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare etc, it forces a cost shift to other insurers. And the fuckery goes downhill from there. Not to mention the free riders. No Virginia, illegals are NOT a net positive to the taxpayer.

And if you seriously think healthcare is better elsehwhere by all means go get it. I know some folks who have done Medical Tourism with mixed results. Some very happy with their discount boobs, some not so happy with their hip or knee. But cleanliness and quality are not better overseas in my experience. Not even close.

But i will make you the same offer i give everybody. Come to Houston, I i will pick you up at the airport of your choice, take you to lunch, then we will go visit the VA Hospital. Of course i will require a signed agreement to STFU inside as you may have an issue keeping silent. Then we can hit a workout in the PL54 gym, eat some excellent grilled meat, and fix the world's problems over adult beverages.

Then you can take your ass home or to any place you want to let them stick a knife in you.

powerlifter54 wrote:

milosz wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I'm surprised Milosz. You are often pretty savvy but in this case you present a curious naivety.

About healthcare? We spend more for shittier outcomes, those are simple facts.

The ACA was a bad idea, because all it did was further entrench the system that provides poor service and costs too much, forcing me to buy in. It does appear to be reining in healthcare costs overall to some extent but the only logical system for a first world nation is some kind of single-payer.

Healthcare costs are where they are because of government involvement in price setting and no consumer visibility on price. When the government starts setting artificially low prices for Medicare/Medicaid/Tricare etc, it forces a cost shift to other insurers. And the fuckery goes downhill from there. Not to mention the free riders. No Virginia, illegals are NOT a net positive to the taxpayer.

And if you seriously think healthcare is better elsehwhere by all means go get it. I know some folks who have done Medical Tourism with mixed results. Some very happy with their discount boobs, some not so happy with their hip or knee. But cleanliness and quality are not better overseas in my experience. Not even close.

But i will make you the same offer i give everybody. Come to Houston, I i will pick you up at the airport of your choice, take you to lunch, then we will go visit the VA Hospital. Of course i will require a signed agreement to STFU inside as you may have an issue keeping silent. Then we can hit a workout in the PL54 gym, eat some excellent grilled meat, and fix the world's problems over adult beverages.

Then you can take your ass home or to any place you want to let them stick a knife in you.

Overall I am pretty satisfied with my VA experience (we have a "clinic locally) but I go to a regular hospital for critical care of any kind. I had an eye exam in early Sept and still don't have my glasses yet. I was told 6 to 8 weeks for them to come (it's been 8 weeks tomorrow) - thankfully I don't actually "need" glasses. Two months and counting for something that gets done in 2 hours out in the real world. Things could be better I think.

No your comment about single payer magically being better.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:No your comment about single payer magically being better.

It's not magically better, throughout the first world single-payer systems simply deliver better outcomes at a lower cost.

I mean, there is a counter-argument there (we're not a first-world state anymore) but no one political ventures there.

milosz wrote:

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:No your comment about single payer magically being better.

It's not magically better, throughout the first world single-payer systems simply deliver better outcomes at a lower cost.

That's a lot simplistic, but even if taken at face value-- none of the major US single payer systems (VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Indian Health Service) have demonstrated any of the core competencies that make those foreign systems work effectively. The only one that does well is probably county health programs, but that's only because the ROI of childhood vaccinations is really high.

And that brings us back to the main point of this article--Mark Felt ruined the best chance we ever had at a single payer system in the US. Contemplate that on the tree of woe.

The rule of law in the US is dead. Waco was an almost fatal blow to the Executive but we survived it. As was Roe to the Judiciary. But then came Obama and the Roberts Court. There is no longer any pretense that there will be outcomes detrimental to the wishes of the appointees at the heads of these branches. Obergefell and the two Obama Care cases killed the judiciary and the meeting with Clinton and subsequent shameless exoneration of Hillary killed the Executive.

But this all comes back to the multicultural empire intentionally created to break the power of the white ethnes. Empires are lawless in the sense we understand the term. There is nothing but tribal interest and zero sum spoils.

PS. Janet Reno is in hell.