Thoughts on Handguns?

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johno
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by johno »

milosz wrote:
Nobody forced Hillary to speak up for gun control and to fan gun owners' fears, rational and irrational.
This is a pretty sweet combo of loaded question and non-sequitur. You are literally the person who brought up Hillary in response to the complete impossibility of a ban being enacted and the only one interested, I don't really have anything to say about her or her position so... good luck with all that.
You said there was no "threat." I showed that the Dem Presidential candidate openly favored gun confiscation. OK, that's not a "threat" to you. But it was to many voters. It's certainly reasonable to take it as hostility to Heller and other gun rights.
milosz wrote:I said nothing about Hillary or either party or... well, whatever you seem to think I said. You should read more carefully, perhaps.
Maybe you should write more carefully.
What does "never any threat of ban or anything" mean, if not a threat by the politician everyone "knew" would be the next President?



johno wrote:No whining about the mean old NRA.
milosz wrote:What about the NRA? It's fairly self-evident at this point that they don't exist to foster anything positive for members unto themselves, they're a mouthpiece and lobbying group for the firearms industry, to the detriment in some instances of gun owners. By constantly relying on scare tactics to drum up memberships (and sales), the process of a shrinking base of gun owners (lots of guns, relatively few gun owners in this country - the people who do just happen to own a large number), you shrink the number of voters and citizens comfortable with and supportive of gun rights.
The NRA is still the premier gun safety educator in the US. And gun event organizer. And will be for the foreseeable future. That you don't know that shows either willful ignorance on your part or the effectiveness of the media blackout on the subject.

As to your dire predictions on the fate of guns in the US:

Image

http://www.people-press.org/2014/12/10/ ... un-rights/

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The best lack all conviction, while the worst
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milosz
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by milosz »

johno wrote: You said there was no "threat." I showed that the Dem Presidential candidate openly favored gun confiscation. OK, that's not a "threat" to you. But it was to many voters. It's certainly reasonable to take it as hostility to Heller and other gun rights.
Was Hillary running for President in 2010? 2012? 2014? You know, that whole period of panic-buying that I referred to.

Yes, I said there was no threat - because no reasonable person believed a ban was on the horizon. After Virginia Tech, after Newtown, after Colorado, after the Supreme Court mandated an individual right... nothing negative happened to gun owners or gun rights. You even admit their fears were irrational.

That, as I said, didn't stop people from stoking the fears to drive the constant cycle of panic-buying that heavily benefitted the industry.

(If you're unclear on the meaning of "threat" in context, let me give you a couple of phrases to parse - "existential threat," "life-threatening.")
Maybe you should write more carefully.
What does "never any threat of ban or anything" mean, if not a threat by the politician everyone "knew" would be the next President?
That there's no realistic chance of something occurring. Everyone else seemed to grasp this.

Realistically... you did too. You know you did, you just felt a burning need somewhere to bring up Clinton for no discernible reason. It's okay, neither Bill nor Hillary is politically relevant anymore, you can let the scarey bogeyman go soon.

[quoteThe NRA is still the premier gun safety educator in the US. And gun event organizer. And will be for the foreseeable future. That you don't know that shows either willful ignorance on your part or the effectiveness of the media blackout on the subject.[/quote]

Gosh, I didn't know the NRA was... wait, no I never said anything along those lines.

This is... fascinating. It's like you're incapable of arguing with anything but a strawman that lives entirely inside your head. What's that like? Does it feel kinda like schizophrenia?
As to your dire predictions on the fate of guns in the US:
You mean that as crime has declined rapidly and the crack epidemic disappeared, people stopped freaking out about guns?

Now, of course... I didn't say anything about current attitudes toward guns. I said gun ownership. Gun ownership is predictive of future generations' comfort with and knowledge of guns (and desire to protect them).

Gun ownership, by every poll, has declined over the last two decades by ~10%. The decline is more stark among young people (technically, young and middle-aged people but 40-somethings might as well be kids compared to gun owners, Republican voters or people who watch Fox News).

Now, an NRA that wants to establish a broad base of support (rather than being concentrated in aging conservative Republicans) would be doing outreach in 'underserved' communities and broadening the base of gun owners by age and ethnicity. Instead they've been happy to serve the short term needs of the industry by encouraging the 20% of gun owners who own a half-dozen or more to continue buying.


bennyonesix
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by bennyonesix »

That last para is spot on.

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DrDonkeyLove
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by DrDonkeyLove »

milosz wrote:Now, an NRA that wants to establish a broad base of support (rather than being concentrated in aging conservative Republicans) would be doing outreach in 'underserved' communities and broadening the base of gun owners by age and ethnicity. Instead they've been happy to serve the short term needs of the industry by encouraging the 20% of gun owners who own a half-dozen or more to continue buying.
My new favorite group.
Black Guns Matter
Image

Asking a black man for an ID to exercise his right to vote is considered the ultimate in racism by the left, but very restrictive handgun laws in libby lib states like NY that are designed to restrict his 2nd amendment rights are perfectly fine. Disgusting racism/classism IMO.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party


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Boris
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Boris »

Why US Liberals Are Now Buying Guns" (bbc article): http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-382973 ... ign=buffer

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Turdacious
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Turdacious »

milosz wrote:Was Hillary running for President in 2010? 2012? 2014? You know, that whole period of panic-buying that I referred to.
If you think she didn't spend eight years preparing to run in 2016 I don't know what to say.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by milosz »

So in 2010, two years before Obama was re-elected and six years before she ran, panic buying was driven by Clinton "preparing to run"?

makessense.jpg

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

Turdacious wrote:
milosz wrote:Was Hillary running for President in 2010? 2012? 2014? You know, that whole period of panic-buying that I referred to.
If you think she didn't spend eight years preparing to run in 2016 I don't know what to say.
What? The fear being stoked was clearly related to Obama.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.

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Turdacious
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Turdacious »

milosz wrote:So in 2010, two years before Obama was re-elected and six years before she ran, panic buying was driven by Clinton "preparing to run"?

makessense.jpg
She spent six years pissing off a demographic she needed in 2016.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule


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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by milosz »

Uh... okay. I don't know what you think that has to do with... anything being discussed, but cool story.

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Herv100
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Herv100 »

Image
Image


tonkadtx
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tonkadtx »

Depending on how long the roll out takes, there should be a ton of surplus M9s hitting the market.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army ... -sig-sauer

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Grandpa's Spells
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Grandpa's Spells »

tonkadtx wrote:Depending on how long the roll out takes, there should be a ton of surplus M9s hitting the market.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army ... -sig-sauer
Nope, barring a change in the law.
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tonkadtx
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tonkadtx »

Sorry, not my area of expertise. That's weird that they wouldn't sell something that is legal to purchase on the civilian market and virtually identical.


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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Boris »

An update on this gun - I might have to get rid of it. I've had it a while now and I love it. I shoot it very well, but it ejects empty shells into my face, down my shirt, etc and I can't stand for that. Yeah, it's not a problem with hotter ammo, but it sucks.
Boris wrote:Updating an older thread... I picked up one of these lately. The trigger is amazing - zero squishiness. The trapezoidal sights will take some getting used to, but I'm enjoying plinking away with it.
Image

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tough old man
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tough old man »

I've switched up gears this year just to have fun and skirt a few local laws
Crosmans .357 calibre air rifle.
It shoots a 147 grain pellet @ 950 fps.
rated for up to deer hunting in a lot of states and has been on safari.
Im enjoying shooting it and the hundreds of questions I get on the range.
Sighted it in for 100 yards and it was going through the 3/4 ply easily.
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Schlegel »

Interesting air gun, TOM. Local shop has one on the wall. I'd kinda like something air but low power where i could shoot into a trap box in the basement. Did you see my new Hi Power down the page? 40 and 357sig barrels. A 1995 practical in really nice shape. Also picked up a Colt vest pocket of 1914 vintage just to expand my JMB collection.
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tough old man
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tough old man »

Good find for sure.

Hatsan Bullboss in .25 calibre is highly recommended.
30-40 shots per fill / 12 -15 fills per charge canister fill
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Shapecharge
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Shapecharge »

Before everything got crazy with ammo I was seriously making a return to bullseye pistol and I almost bought this to do some indoor training:

http://www.steyr-sport.com/en/steyr-lp-50

You can get a .45 gripset for it as well as a modified trigger assembly to 4 lbs. When everything started getting crazy after Sandy Hook it sorta killed it for me.

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tough old man
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tough old man »

Those shoot amazing!
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Shapecharge
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Shapecharge »

Doug you've shot one? I had a new one in my hands but didn't shoot it. It was a very cool piece of equipment. If my timing had been a little different I would have one.

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tough old man
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tough old man »

yes. theres an air rifle and pistol league here.
A lot of these too.
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tonkadtx
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tonkadtx »

What do the Airgun slugs weigh? Because as far as muzzle velocity, the .25 is right on point (better then quite a few .25 ammos) and the .357 is close. I'm wondering what kind of terminal ballistics you could generate.


Shapecharge
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by Shapecharge »

I've been shooting this in the house for nearly 20 years. I've got a trap on the dining room wall...shoot through the kitchen and the dining room.


Image


tonkadtx
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Re: Thoughts on Handguns?

Post by tonkadtx »

Good article from Crosman about Airgun ballistics. I learned a lot of this in Physics and promptly pushed it all out of my head...

http://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics

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