The customer is always right

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:34 pm

God, I hate airline travel any more.

DrDonkeyLove · Post by **DrDonkeyLove** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:34 pm

nafod wrote:

God, I hate airline travel any more.

Over booking I get....a little bit. Kicking off paying customers to move employees around, completely unacceptable.

It's a tough call determining the worst of the worst US Airlines but United is definitely in the running. Maybe some grandstanding congressperson or another will claw back a few passenger rights. Until then....

buckethead · Post by **buckethead** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:51 pm

Pepsi: That was the biggest PR blunder of the week, year maybe.

United: Hold my beer.

Sean Spicer: LEEEEEEEEEERROOOOOOOY JEEEENNNNNNKINS!!

*credit @lance_bradley

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:12 pm

There's an epic video response on the FB's, the Jiu-Jitsu Magazine FB page.

EDIT: Here is is, someone finally put it up on the Tubes:

Flying in the near future (specially with a certain airline)? Get ready with @renergracie and @ryrongracie. Go train!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdyx2PSD_OA[/youtube]

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:16 pm

Whether they overbooked or somehow forgot that they needed to move a flight crew, letting the plane board before kicking people off was their biggest mistake. It's less considerate to the people who get kicked off, more likely to invoke protests, and more likely to result in delays for all of the other passengers.

This doctor is clearly a douchebag, but United deserves what they're getting.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:22 pm

United Continental Holdings Inc.'s stock UAL, -0.69% edged up 0.6% in morning trade Wednesday, but pared earlier gains of as much as 1.4%, as it once again failed to sustain gains above a key technical level. The widely-watched 50-day moving average, which many chart watchers see as a dividing line between short-term uptrends and downtrends, currently extends to $71.64. The air carrier's stock briefly traded above the 50-day MA when it reached an intraday high of $71.73, before pulling back below it, in the wake of incident over the weekend in which a passenger was dragged off a United plane. On Monday, the stock rose to an intraday high of $72.10, which was above the 50-day MA at the time of $71.65, before closing below it at $71.52. The last time the stock closed above the 50-day MA was March 3, 2017. The stock remains well above its 200-day moving average, seen by many as the long-term trend tracker, which currently extends to $61.30.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/united ... 2017-04-12

TL/DR- yawn.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag

Not so clear to me.

My wife read somewhere that he has a very thick accent, and might not have completely understood exactly what was being said? I don't know.

I agree that it was absurd to let the passengers board when they already knew they would have to bump a few. That was the beginning of the cluster. But who thought it was a good idea to eject a 70yo doctor? Jesus, pick someone else.

(What's the algorithm for choosing, I wonder?)

Herv100 · Post by **Herv100** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:28 pm

This is what happens when you have a bunch of random broke-asses making these decisions for a major company.

As is the case with most problems like these that businesses experience: they didn't open their fucking pocketbook

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:32 pm

Little is known about Dao or why he was so adamant about remaining on the flight, leading news organizations to probe his history. The Louisville Courier-Journal and other news organizations reported Monday that Dao had previously been convicted of six felonies related to his medical practice in 2004, in which he was accused of illegally prescribing painkillers to a patient in exchange for sex.

Dao surrendered his medical license in 2005, and applied for reinstatement, telling regulators it was a matter of “family honor.” In a 2014 letter, his attorney described Dao as "a grandfather, an active participant in his local church" who supports an organization that helps the homeless in his community, Elizabethtown, Ky.

According to publicly available state licensing records reviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Dao has a history of mental health problems, including depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, for which he has received treatment. A 2011 psychological evaluation of Dao concluded that he "lacked the foundation to navigate difficult situations, both inter-personally and in a complex profession.”

That evaluation also said Dao has struggled with “poor decision-making” and a “lack of awareness around his personality and relational issues.” The records said Dao had been previously cited by a hospital in the 2000s for “disruptive conduct” and was ordered to seek evaluation for “anger management” issues. In 2002, another doctor wrote that Dao sometimes “unilaterally chose to do his own thing.”

But another psychological evaluation administered in 2013 concluded that Dao “emotionally was free of debilitating anxiety, depression, or psychological turmoil to the extent that it would affect his ability to function in activities of daily living or manage the practice of medicine.”

Regulators cleared Dao to return to medical practice in 2015, in which he was initially restricted to working one day a week, supervised by another doctor.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-uni ... story.html
Not sure there is any way this would have ended well.

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:03 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.

Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.

When he decided not to comply with the flight crew's shitty, unfair instructions, he made the situation worse for himself and everyone else on the plane. And his justification, "I'm a doctor", suggests he did so because he sees himself as more important than his fellow passengers.

The other three passengers who were bumped deserve more sympathy than this guy.

Bob Wildes · Post by **Bob Wildes** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:19 pm

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:41 pm

Pinky wrote:
JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.
Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.

When he decided not to comply with the flight crew's shitty, unfair instructions, he made the situation worse for himself and everyone else on the plane. And his justification, "I'm a doctor", suggests he did so because he sees himself as more important than his fellow passengers.

The other three passengers who were bumped deserve more sympathy than this guy.

I used to book the Thursday evening flight from philly to LA just so I could get bumped, get a free round trip ticket, stay in a nice hotel, and get a first class upgrade for the next morning's go.

They should have just auctioned it off. Keep raising the offer until someone took it.

As Turd said, nothing good was going to come from picking that guy. But being nuts is not illegal.

Herv100 · Post by **Herv100** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:13 pm

nafod wrote:
Pinky wrote:
JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.
Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.

When he decided not to comply with the flight crew's shitty, unfair instructions, he made the situation worse for himself and everyone else on the plane. And his justification, "I'm a doctor", suggests he did so because he sees himself as more important than his fellow passengers.

The other three passengers who were bumped deserve more sympathy than this guy.

They should have just auctioned it off. Keep raising the offer until someone took it.

Exactly. Open the fuckin pocketbook

Grandpa's Spells · Post by **Grandpa's Spells** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Pinky wrote:
JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.
Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.

My read from a couple lawyers on this was forcing someone off the plane to make room for employees was illegal. Everyone boarded because the flight was not overbooked. While they have wide latitude for denying boarding, kicking a passenger off requires a much stricter set of circumstances that weren't remotely met.

I'm not saying the doc knew that, but the sense that this was outrageous and unfair lines up pretty neatly with the law.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:30 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Pinky wrote:
JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.
Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.
My read from a couple lawyers on this was forcing someone off the plane to make room for employees was illegal. Everyone boarded because the flight was not overbooked. While they have wide latitude for denying boarding, kicking a passenger off requires a much stricter set of circumstances that weren't remotely met.

I'm not saying the doc knew that, but the sense that this was outrageous and unfair lines up pretty neatly with the law.

I've been on a flight where they had to ask for volunteers for weight and balance reasons after we've boarded. I figured the plane was probably going to crash so I got off.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:31 pm

Turdacious wrote:
Little is known about Dao or why he was so adamant about remaining on the flight, leading news organizations to probe his history. The Louisville Courier-Journal and other news organizations reported Monday that Dao had previously been convicted of six felonies related to his medical practice in 2004, in which he was accused of illegally prescribing painkillers to a patient in exchange for sex.

Dao surrendered his medical license in 2005, and applied for reinstatement, telling regulators it was a matter of “family honor.” In a 2014 letter, his attorney described Dao as "a grandfather, an active participant in his local church" who supports an organization that helps the homeless in his community, Elizabethtown, Ky.

According to publicly available state licensing records reviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Dao has a history of mental health problems, including depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, for which he has received treatment. A 2011 psychological evaluation of Dao concluded that he "lacked the foundation to navigate difficult situations, both inter-personally and in a complex profession.”

That evaluation also said Dao has struggled with “poor decision-making” and a “lack of awareness around his personality and relational issues.” The records said Dao had been previously cited by a hospital in the 2000s for “disruptive conduct” and was ordered to seek evaluation for “anger management” issues. In 2002, another doctor wrote that Dao sometimes “unilaterally chose to do his own thing.”

But another psychological evaluation administered in 2013 concluded that Dao “emotionally was free of debilitating anxiety, depression, or psychological turmoil to the extent that it would affect his ability to function in activities of daily living or manage the practice of medicine.”

Regulators cleared Dao to return to medical practice in 2015, in which he was initially restricted to working one day a week, supervised by another doctor.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-uni ... story.html

See? Not a douchebag.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:33 pm

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:48 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:I'm not saying the doc knew that, but the sense that this was outrageous and unfair lines up pretty neatly with the law.

I agree (and have said) that United's actions were outrageous and unfair. All four of the people who were involuntarily bumped from that flight after they boarded were mistreated. Three of those four acted appropriately. One of them acted like a complete jackass.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:57 pm

JimZipCode wrote:
Turdacious wrote:
Little is known about Dao or why he was so adamant about remaining on the flight, leading news organizations to probe his history. The Louisville Courier-Journal and other news organizations reported Monday that Dao had previously been convicted of six felonies related to his medical practice in 2004, in which he was accused of illegally prescribing painkillers to a patient in exchange for sex.

Dao surrendered his medical license in 2005, and applied for reinstatement, telling regulators it was a matter of “family honor.” In a 2014 letter, his attorney described Dao as "a grandfather, an active participant in his local church" who supports an organization that helps the homeless in his community, Elizabethtown, Ky.

According to publicly available state licensing records reviewed by the Los Angeles Times, Dao has a history of mental health problems, including depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder, for which he has received treatment. A 2011 psychological evaluation of Dao concluded that he "lacked the foundation to navigate difficult situations, both inter-personally and in a complex profession.”

That evaluation also said Dao has struggled with “poor decision-making” and a “lack of awareness around his personality and relational issues.” The records said Dao had been previously cited by a hospital in the 2000s for “disruptive conduct” and was ordered to seek evaluation for “anger management” issues. In 2002, another doctor wrote that Dao sometimes “unilaterally chose to do his own thing.”

But another psychological evaluation administered in 2013 concluded that Dao “emotionally was free of debilitating anxiety, depression, or psychological turmoil to the extent that it would affect his ability to function in activities of daily living or manage the practice of medicine.”

Regulators cleared Dao to return to medical practice in 2015, in which he was initially restricted to working one day a week, supervised by another doctor.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-uni ... story.html
See? Not a douchebag.

A doctor who trades addictive prescription drugs for sex is by definition a douchebag (of coarse, after he gets his well deserved settlement, he can pay desperate junkies cash to blow him). Hopefully this leads to an investigation into why the state medical board allowed him to resume practicing medicine- this is a nationwide problem. http://doctors.ajc.com/

DrDonkeyLove · Post by **DrDonkeyLove** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Wonder if complying passengers and those who were traumatized by the experience will sue.

I fly them primarily & have one of their credit cards. Am thinking of writing them a letter just to see what crumbs might fall my way.

Also, when you look at the rear view shot of the cop who was dragging him from the plane, he has a holster of some kind on his right hip. A gun?

Generally when I see cops get on planes they keep their gun hand lightly on the back strap of their handgun. I assume these guys were armed and didn't notice any gun protection in the snippets I've seen. It's not possible to drag a guy down an aisle and hold your gun at the same time, and there were three of them. But, I'd hate for the terrorist community to get new nefarious ideas.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:25 pm

The flight wasn't overbooked.
The airline wanted 4 of their people on it.
This seems to be a violation of FAA law.
They are going to get fucked.
So, too, is the Chicago Aviation security team.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:29 pm

climber511 · Post by **climber511** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:27 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:The flight wasn't overbooked.
The airline wanted 4 of their people on it.
This seems to be a violation of FAA law.
They are going to get fucked.
So, too, is the Chicago Aviation security team.

A pretty dumb mistake compounded by an even dumber one. They had to know they needed 4 seats for employees before boarding. Once they let everyone board there was - is no good way to handle it.

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Pinky wrote:
JimZipCode wrote:
Pinky wrote:This doctor is clearly a douchebag
Not so clear to me.
Unless you've never been on or heard about an airplane before, you know that refusing to get off a plane when the crew tells you to is going to cause problems for everyone else on the plane. You also know that the airline isn't going to change its mind and decide that it doesn't need to bump people.

When he decided not to comply with the flight crew's shitty, unfair instructions, he made the situation worse for himself and everyone else on the plane. And his justification, "I'm a doctor", suggests he did so because he sees himself as more important than his fellow passengers.

The other three passengers who were bumped deserve more sympathy than this guy.

The airline probably could've done a better job here. I understand I have to comply with reasonable requests from flight crew, but that's not license for them to be total assholes about it.

They could have sweetened the deal significantly if they needed the seats that bad, but instead they just randomly selected people and when one guy got pissy, called in security (who probably were told "get this asshole off the plane, whatever it takes"). They probably figured they'd save time and buck - turns out they were wrong. If that's not f*cked up, I don't know what is.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:58 pm

"Reasonable requests from flight crew" = being singled out and told I have to GTFO the plane. What?

IGX

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