IGX

In an online article I have come across an interesting expression: "The lockdown policies across the United States set the conservative priority of individual liberty against the progressive priority of the common good, exacerbating an already entrenched partisan divide in the United States".

This could have taken out of a political commentary in some Soviet periodical in the 70s.

Dialectic intensifies.

None of the reopened states have had a big second wave. Looks like a win for Federalism and the laboratory of democracy.

Sangoma wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 3:56 am In an online article I have come across an interesting expression: "The lockdown policies across the United States set the conservative priority of individual liberty against the progressive priority of the common good, exacerbating an already entrenched partisan divide in the United States".

This could have taken out of a political commentary in some Soviet periodical in the 70s.

Individual liberty is essential for the common good.

Exactly, Donk. That's why the public good was better served by the individual liberty-minded US of A than by the collectivist USSR.

The fundamental misunderstanding of leftoids is this: individuals, each working in their own self-interest, will do more to improve the collective welfare of society than any so-called progressive and invasive social policies, which are really just about controlling people.

They don't really misunderstand that. The goal is control. They know their policies make things worse. That's a feature not a bug.

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:24 pm They don't really misunderstand that. The goal is control. They know their policies make things worse. That's a feature not a bug.

You are, of course, correct. However, there is "they" the policy makers, which you are referring to, and "they" the well-meaning (but utterly dumb) progressive-minded leftists like Spells and Nafod who support the policy out a crushing sense of native inferiority. The latter is the group I was referring to.

In the end, it's all the same, because you can't have broad social interventions without wielding the state apparatus needed to enforce.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 9:11 pm individuals, each working in their own self-interest, will do more to improve the collective welfare of society...

Freedom-loving children ready to work in their own self-interest in unsafe coal mines thus improving our collective welfare...

They were willing to do that because it was even harder work for less money on the farm.

But I see I missed the point of that pic. Lefties don't respond with a rational argument, they give you an image. Which is why they win, human psychology being what it is. That plus ruthlessness, persistence, a steady erosion of moral fiber in those not yet infected, and a real willingness to destroy themselves for the cause.

Yes, drunk on the wine of compassion is still just drunk.

But see, I don't believe that they are actually drunk on compassion. They're drunk on lust for power. I get that many of them will act like they're all so concerned but I don't believe them. If they were filled with compassion they wouldn't be so quick to be so ugly towards anyone who disagrees with them, or criticizes their icons.

I guess I think the left is tiered, with utter goobers at the bottom and Moloch-worshipping anti-life (((rootless cosmopolitans))) at the top. You make good points though, progressivism is an intolerant ideology.

$36.6 billion in losses from COVID-19 hospitalizations
$161.4 billion in net revenue losses from cancelled surgeries and other services
$2.4 billion in additional costs associated with purchasing personal protective equipment
$2.2 billion in addition support for frontline workers

American Hospital association’s estimate of COVID19 hospital losses (overtime costs not included)

https://www.aha.org/system/files/media/ ... -FINAL.pdf

And then one day, for no reason at all, it was gone: https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus ... story.html

Damn straight. Imma take the 12 gauge and parade around in front of the post office to show folks there's nothing to be afraid of.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 5:24 pm

Protobuilder wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 4:58 amChinese doctors

LMAO. What will you think of next?

What part? The system is corrupt but doctors aren't idiots nor terrible.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 4:11 am None of the reopened states have had a big second wave. Looks like a win for Federalism and the laboratory of democracy.

Huh? Go check the data. Florida, Texas, AZ all spiking.

Cases, yes. Because of detection. Deaths, not so much.
Here's the latest from Florida. I suppose there could still be an increase 2 weeks after the giant protests started...

From what I understand, this is the expert consensus:
The fear:
--we'll see a repeat of the Spanish Flu, where the second and third waves were nastier than the first.

The good:
-- major supply chain shortages should be filled as long as the next wave doesn't hit until fall (surgical N95s, regular N95s, supplies for COVID19 test kits, essential medication stockpiles, etc...)
-- testing protocols have gotten much better and faster in the last few months
-- we've learned a lot about proper PPE protocol in a hurry (a big reason the COVID19 infection rate among US providers is much lower than Italian and Spanish ones), even without the best stuff
-- we've learned about how to limit casualties in the highest risk areas (nursing homes), it's just up to states to implement them (my guess is that they will)
-- telehealth use has skyrocketed and it has mostly worked well, which should help during the next wave and will probably lower insurance costs for the rest of us in the long run
-- a lot of work can be done from home with similar/higher productivity rates, and businesses are embracing it
-- the federal government is unfucking itself at a pretty rapid pace (for the federal government) when it comes to disaster response
-- the mortality rates were lower than predicted
-- FEMA isn't running the COVID19 response

The bad:
-- a lot of businesses are screwed, partially because a lot of workers won't come back until they've burned through their unemployment bump
-- the economy has shifted fundamentally in a few ways, and a lot of low skill jobs probably won't come back
-- those workers who reenter the employment market at the end of July will be facing a very competitive employment market; those who do get jobs will have to settle for less money in many cases
-- nobody knows how to build domestic PPE production capacity so we can be self sufficient, or at least there isn't a consensus on how to do it/the political will to do it
-- cities and states are probably gonna raise taxes in all sorts of ways in the next few months

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:51 am Cases, yes. Because of detection. Deaths, not so much.
Here's the latest from Florida. I suppose there could still be an increase 2 weeks after the giant protests started...Screenshot_20200611-204604_Samsung Internet.jpg

Ah-Florida. Interesting that you'd pick that example. This is the state that fired the head Corona Virus scientist, and she says the data they're publishing is bullshit:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' (R) claims Jones was fired for refusing to "listen to the people who were her superiors." Either way, her numbers are starkly different than what is being reported by the Florida Health Department. "On Friday, Jones' website counted 75,897 people with coronavirus infections in Florida," reports The Washington Post, "while the state site tallied 70,971." Additionally, Jones' website claims the Health Department has tested about 30 percent fewer people than the 1.3 million it claims to have screened. "If Florida is indeed misreporting how many people have been tested, it makes the health situation in Florida look better than it is," The Palm Beach Post notes.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/919739/f ... han-states

I'm not arguing the economic merit of reopening vs. the risk. But to say that states are reopening without consequence? (Oh-but that the case load will spike due to civil protests?) That's...very Fox News of you.

lasalle wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:19 pm

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:51 am Cases, yes. Because of detection. Deaths, not so much.
Here's the latest from Florida. I suppose there could still be an increase 2 weeks after the giant protests started...Screenshot_20200611-204604_Samsung Internet.jpg

Ah-Florida. Interesting that you'd pick that example. This is the state that fired the head Corona Virus scientist, and she says the data they're publishing is bullshit:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' (R) claims Jones was fired for refusing to "listen to the people who were her superiors." Either way, her numbers are starkly different than what is being reported by the Florida Health Department. "On Friday, Jones' website counted 75,897 people with coronavirus infections in Florida," reports The Washington Post, "while the state site tallied 70,971." Additionally, Jones' website claims the Health Department has tested about 30 percent fewer people than the. 1.3 million it claims to have screened. "If Florida is indeed misreporting how many people have been tested, it makes the health situation in Florida look better than it is," The Palm Beach Post notes.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/919739/f ... han-states

I'm not arguing the economic merit of reopening vs. the risk. But to say that states are reopening without consequence? (Oh-but that the case load will spike due to civil protests?) That's...very Fox News of you.

She wasn't the head covid-19 scientist... she was a geographer and was only in charge of setting up the modules on the data reporting webpage. She was not in charge of the data.

Heres wikipedia's graphs for deaths.
Virginia...

Georgia and Texas.

All all 4 states lying? Deaths are very very hard to hide because the state reports what location the death was in and local hospitals will tell reporters how many deaths they've had. Where I am the running and current numbers are on the hospital's web site, you don't even need to ask for it.

FYI, I dont watch Fox. I just know the difference between a number that has meaning only when given context (positive tests) and a concrete number with easy interpretation (daily deaths) where all you need is the total resident population.