IGX

So are you going to try and get it, and get it behind you?

No, I am just doing the bare minimum to show respect for the concerns of those around me. I am not concerned at all about getting it, but I would not want to pass it on to my elderly parents. I am far more concerned about the economic consequences of the moral panic gripping our nation, which is bordering on apocalyptic here in Hawaii.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:22 pm No, I am just doing the bare minimum to show respect for the concerns of those around me. I am not concerned at all about getting it, but I would not want to pass it on to my elderly parents. I am far more concerned about the economic consequences of the moral panic gripping our nation, which is bordering on apocalyptic here in Hawaii.

What are you seeing when you say "moral panic" in Hawaii?

There have been 27 deaths due assigned to COVID-19 so far in Hawaii, virtually all of them aged, infirm, diseased, and/or obese people. For that, we have torched the economy in a way that cannot be easily repaired. That and there are groups like this one: https://www.facebook.com/groups/KapuBreakers/ that are acting like Stasi informants, following and harassing people and even setting up little motorcades at the airport trying to shun tourists--that we desperately need, btw--and make them feel unwelcome by suggesting that they are "killing" people in Hawaii. That's fucking lunacy.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:36 pm So are you going to try and get it, and get it behind you?

I have no idea why anyone would bother to respond sincerely and civilly to you.

You are facile and smarmy.

Fuck off with your facebook shitlib bullshit.

We all see it constantly.

Get fucked asshole.

This from someone whose google search history is identical to a pedophile’s.

What does a paedophile's search history look like? Can you elaborate?

Interesting and surprisingly well written article on what a shitshow opening schools is going to be.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mo ... ing-county

.

Sangoma wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:43 am Can you elaborate?

Thankfully no.

I am just doing the bare minimum to show respect for the concerns of those around me.

I’m not staying at home, but I mask up everywhere. We go to bars with outdoor seating a lot. I go into work.

My theory is dosing matters, and masks reduce dose, and we’re all getting exposed to it in low enough doses that we hopefully won’t get virulently sick. I think that’s why healthcare workers were hit so hard, they got huge sustained doses.

that meme is a pretty accurate depiction of my wife's mental state right now.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:57 pm that meme is a pretty accurate depiction of my wife's mental state right now.

Ditto!

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:55 am This from someone whose google search history is identical to a pedophile’s.

More of the same facile bs.

More leveraging fear of social ostracism.

Fuck you.

nafod wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:20 pm

Sangoma wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:43 am Can you elaborate?

Thankfully no.

I am just doing the bare minimum to show respect for the concerns of those around me.

I’m not staying at home, but I mask up everywhere. We go to bars with outdoor seating a lot. I go into work.

My theory is dosing matters, and masks reduce dose, and we’re all getting exposed to it in low enough doses that we hopefully won’t get virulently sick. I think that’s why healthcare workers were hit so hard, they got huge sustained doses.

Read a fucking paper or two asshole.


https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 1.full.pdf

4. Discussion
114 Initial SARS-CoV-2 viral load is widely distributed ranging from 3 to 10 log copies/ml and the evolution
115 of the viral load over-time mirrored the evolution of SARS-CoV-2 infections in Switzerland. The median
116 viral load for SARS-CoV-2 in NPS was 6.78 log10 copies per ml. This supports the fact that RT-PCR which
117 can detect less than 100 copies per ml of samples is a sensitive method for the diagnostic of COVID-
118 19. This is however limited by the quality of specimen sampling and the time course of infection.
119 We also compared SARS-CoV-2 viral loads to that of other respiratory viruses in order to determine
120 whether higher viral loads, that could affect contagiousness, are observed. Although significant
121 differences were observed when compared to some other respiratory viruses, SARS-CoV-2 appears to
122 exhibit similar viral load than RSV and influenza [9]. For respiratory viruses other than Flu and RSV, we
123 have a bias towards immunocompromised or severely ill patients, which might tend to have higher
124 viral loads. Interestingly, others reported that the pattern of patients infected with SARS-CoV-2
125 resembles more to patients infected with influenza [12] than SARS-CoV-1 [13]; the former being
126 characterized by increased infectiousness at time or even before symptoms onset [14]. SARS-CoV-2
127 viral load appears to be a poor predictor of disease outcome. Indeed neither the initial nor the highest
128 viral load of patients latter admitted to the ICU was significantly higher than the specimens from
129 patient treated in a SU. This absence of correlation with the clinical outcome is also supported (i) by
130 other published data showing high viral load in asymptomatic patients [15-17, 14] and (ii) by the fact
131 that asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic patients can transmit the virus [18]. We also observed
132 that viral load seems not to correlate with age. In particular, older individual and young children
133 showed similar viral loads than the general population [19-21]. Concentration of the virus in the
134 respiratory tract can indirectly reflects contagiousness; however, viral load is not the only factor at
135 play in term of contagiousness, since nasal discharge and cough are clearly important co-variables
136 impacting transmission."

Viral load in a patient is not the same thing as exposure dose. Viral number in an exposure dose absolutely matters to the infection probabilities. This is extremely well characterized over many pathogens.

The two are unrelated? Initial dose determines symptomology but viral load does not? Initial dose not determinative of later viral load?

The point is that it isn't the covid that is directly causing the severe cytokine storm symptoms.

The viral load drops before the storm hits.

It's most likely opportunistic secondary bacterial anaerobic infections.

So, bacterial load prior to infection would be a better indicator.

Edit

That would be fascinating if it were the case. It might be. I don't see how it would be though. Maybe it is. Honestly curious to see some discussion of it. I'll see what I can find.

End edit

^^^^ comment 666 make of it what you will

Schlegel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:08 pm Viral load in a patient is not the same thing as exposure dose. Viral number in an exposure dose absolutely matters to the infection probabilities. This is extremely well characterized over many pathogens.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/22 ... -19-worse/

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:58 pm
Read a fucking paper or two asshole.

I have dipshit.

https://ucsf.app.box.com/s/blvolkp5z0my ... wyleagt036

In a more recent report from a cruise ship outbreak in Argentina, all passengers were issued surgical masks and all staff provided N95 masks after the initial case of COVID-19 on the ship was detected.41 In this closed setting with masking, where 128 of 217 passengers and staff eventually tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 via RT-PCR, the majority of infected patients on the ship (81%) remained asymptomatic,41 compared to 18% in the cruise ship outbreak without masking40 and 40% as the typical rate.39

This is more recent than the New Scientist paper you cite.

General reading article...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/heal ... ction.html

nafod wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:20 pm I’m not staying at home, but I mask up everywhere. We go to bars with outdoor seating a lot. I go into work.

I wear a mask in the common areas of our office building, and in stores or other public places. All bars here are closed, but I rarely go to them anyway so it hasn't affected me; I drink on my front porch like a proper pineapple picker.

My concern is for my fellow citizens of Hawaii, who are watching their livelihoods crumble and fall, sick or not. I fail to see how ruining people's means of survival whether they are sick or not helps in any way. We have had no tourism since March and are currently among the top five states when it comes to rate of transmission, which basically means we've destroyed our economy and still are up shit creek as far as COVID-19 goes.

nafod wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:42 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:58 pm
Read a fucking paper or two asshole.

I have dipshit.

https://ucsf.app.box.com/s/blvolkp5z0my ... wyleagt036

In a more recent report from a cruise ship outbreak in Argentina, all passengers were issued surgical masks and all staff provided N95 masks after the initial case of COVID-19 on the ship was detected.41 In this closed setting with masking, where 128 of 217 passengers and staff eventually tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 via RT-PCR, the majority of infected patients on the ship (81%) remained asymptomatic,41 compared to 18% in the cruise ship outbreak without masking40 and 40% as the typical rate.39

This is more recent than the New Scientist paper you cite.

General reading article...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/27/heal ... ction.html

Both of those merely assume the theory that initial dose is related to likelihood of infection and symptomatic status. They don't even bother to argue it is related to severity.

If you want to argue that viral load is unrelated to symptomology but initial dose is, fine.

It seems more than unlikely (and probably logically impossible) but I can't find anything directly on point.

Edit

Don't bother posting things by journalists. I won't read. I seem to be the only one who can remember what journalism students were like in college.

End edit

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:05 pm Don't bother posting things by journalists. I won't read.

The good thing about the journalist article is she linked to a bunch of peer-reviewed papers (the one I linked to was a pre-print).

I'll read papers. But fuck wading through some J school grad's writing.

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:42 pm I'll read papers. But fuck wading through some J school grad's writing.

The author of the NY Times article...Katherine J. Wu is a reporter for The Times, where she covers science and health. She holds a Ph.D. in microbiology and immunobiology from Harvard University.