IGX

Kazuya Mishima wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:59 pm So, my father-in-law tested positive for this shit. He is 69, somewhat obese, has high blood pressure, requires dialysis three times per week, and is pretty much sedentary due to a car accident a decade ago. Zero symptoms, and feels just fine. What mean?

Is he a vet? If so, he should be able to get a second test at the local VA hospital for free. Not sure if that would improve the accuracy, but the VA is doing well above average with Covid. Other stuff not necessarily so much.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:44 am Benny. Initial dose size, once again, absolutely affects the chance of you getting the disease or killing the viruses without getting successfully infected. Severity of symptoms if you do get infected is a different, mulifactor thing in which initial dose is only one variable. This is not controversial or new or untested disease hypotheses, these are well established principles.

I know all that. I knew all that. I never denied any of it or even mischaracterized any of it. So your response is non-responsive because again my point was viral load appears to not play a role in the symptomology of covid. And that can't be squared with initial dose being causative in covid.

But now that you've lectured me, and implied I'm ignorant, pls explain the mechanism behind covid symptomology wrt initial dose in light of the fact that viral load seems to play almost no part. Please describe how the initial dose effects symptoms but viral load does not and why the viral load drops just before onset of the Cytokine Storm. I'm interested in a fairly detailed mechanical sequential explanation of Covid disease process.

I'd be especially curious about exactly how each of the "multifactor processes" work in SARS1 and MERS and where the differences with covid are. Especially whether viral load is a factor in symptomology in those diseases. And if it is a factor in those diseases why is it not in Covid? A mechanical explanation would be nice.

It would also be nice if you could explain the Cytokine Storm on a detailed mechanistic level. I'd very much like to know why there are so many opportunistic bacterial infections.

It's good to talk to people who know more about this than me. I doubt you are one of those people, but if you are I'd appreciate the explanation. Because this issue is very important with respect to both individual treatment and societal response.

HahahahhahHahhH

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:44 am Benny. Initial dose size, once again, absolutely affects the chance of you getting the disease or killing the viruses without getting successfully infected. Severity of symptoms if you do get infected is a different, mulifactor thing in which initial dose is only one variable. This is not controversial or new or untested disease hypotheses, these are well established principles.

Pls explain how the initial dose is causative if the viral load isn't killing them and appears the same in asymptomatic and symptomatic.

"Although patients with severe COVID-19 tend to have a high viral load (39), the viral load in asymptomatic patients is similar to that of symptomatic patients (6). These data suggest that viral load may not be the primary cause of fatality in patients with SARS-CoV-2 infection. In contrast, although no elevated levels of inflammatory cytokines/chemokines were reported in asymptomatic patients, inflammatory responses were consistently detected in symptomatic patients. "

https://www.jimmunol.org/content/205/1/12

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:23 pm
I know all that. I knew all that. I never denied any of it or even mischaracterized any of it. So your response is non-responsive because again my point was viral load appears to not play a role in the symptomology of covid. And that can't be squared with initial dose being causative in covid.

Once again, your final sentence here in this paragraph is simply false. That some people have a high virus titer but mild symptoms in no way invalidates the principle that the higher the dose of virus a person is exposed to, the better the odds that the virus will succeed in infecting you.
They are simply not a contradiction. Why do you think they are?

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:03 pm Pls explain how the initial dose is causative...

No one knows, I guess. We just have positive correlation between dosing and symptomatic versus asymptomatic cases.

Hazarding a guess, I'd say, that a low dose gives a chance for the body to ramp up a set of responses leading to asymptomatic cases, that a high dose doesn't give the body a chance to do.

Again, variolation is a fascinating topic. Taking the exact same infectious agent (not a vaccine) and administering it in a controlled fashion to get a controlled sickness.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:28 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:23 pm
I know all that. I knew all that. I never denied any of it or even mischaracterized any of it. So your response is non-responsive because again my point was viral load appears to not play a role in the symptomology of covid. And that can't be squared with initial dose being causative in covid.

Once again, your final sentence here in this paragraph is simply false. That some people have a high virus titer but mild symptoms in no way invalidates the principle that the higher the dose of virus a person is exposed to, the better the odds that the virus will succeed in infecting you.
They are simply not a contradiction. Why do you think they are?

Why are you talking about infections? No one else is. No one else has been.

Causative re symptom severity. Not causative re infection.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:30 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:03 pm Pls explain how the initial dose is causative...

No one knows, I guess. We just have positive correlation between dosing and symptomatic versus asymptomatic cases.

Hazarding a guess, I'd say, that a low dose gives a chance for the body to ramp up a set of responses leading to asymptomatic cases, that a high dose doesn't give the body a chance to do.

Again, variolation is a fascinating topic. Taking the exact same infectious agent (not a vaccine) and administering it in a controlled fashion to get a controlled sickness.

We don't have any correlation between dosing and symptomatic and asymptomatic or severity of symptoms? That's what you are assuming.

We know that viral load is not correlated to the above either.

The viral load is actually not killing people. How then is the initial dose causative?

The viral load seems to not effect the size of the pathological immune response. How then does the size of the initial dose?

The viral load drops as well right before the Cytokine Storm. Looks like it is cleared before the bad stuff happens.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:30 pm

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:03 pm Pls explain how the initial dose is causative...

No one knows, I guess. We just have positive correlation between dosing and symptomatic versus asymptomatic cases.

Hazarding a guess, I'd say, that a low dose gives a chance for the body to ramp up a set of responses leading to asymptomatic cases, that a high dose doesn't give the body a chance to do.

Again, variolation is a fascinating topic. Taking the exact same infectious agent (not a vaccine) and administering it in a controlled fashion to get a controlled sickness.

Variolation is sending kids back to school and letting healthy non-obese ppl get on with things.

Schlegel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:44 amBenny. Initial dose size, once again, absolutely affects the chance of you getting the disease or killing the viruses without getting successfully infected. Severity of symptoms if you do get infected is a different, mulifactor thing in which initial dose is only one variable. This is not controversial or new or untested disease hypotheses, these are well established principles.

My buddy who's treated a ton of COVID patients pretty much says same. There's a lot we don't know, but the above is consistent with bars, public transportation, etc. being bad places to be.

By the way, if you are in a situation where you are highly likely to be exposed, you can put P100 filters on a half mask 3M respirator and you have hospital-grade inhalant protection, as long as you fit test. Unlike n95s, this is something you can actually get your hands on. If for some reason I had to fly commercial into a hotspot airport, I would consider this. If a household member got sick, we'd all wear that.

Great thread on All cause by region. From a fantastic acct.



Edit

Twitter is such a POS app. It has to be intentional. Some weird Us Intel algo maximizing bullshit.

Anyway, this should link to the first post in the thread. The other was fucked up. Sorry



End edit

I wonder where he gets his data. CDC is still showing excess weekly deaths. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm

He has national all cause mortality over the average as well. And got his data from the same place you linked. But it's trending down even after the increase from the border region.



And for me the most important thing about the cdc graph are the preceding mild flu season in 2019.

Jesus. Good job vaccine bros. We'll get another flu vaccine. And we all know how well that works. Not to mention the 15-20% HIT level from background so we'll have to reach truly massive levels of innoculation to make a dent. Really been a refreshing past few months. Such warm feelings towards experts.

And of course this has nothing at all to do with the total regulatory capture of WHO and CDC by Big Pharma.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/08/07/cor ... ssion=true

And get fucked if you think I am taking some rushed vaccine to protect against a disease like this. Lmao.

You will if they require you to take the blue pill to travel, just like you accept the other edicts they hand down. I'm guilty of taking the mark of the beast too. When they say they have a vaccine, there will be 1) a stampede to get it, and 2) demonization/shaming/banning of those who won't take it.

They should put it in the drinking water like fluoridation.

Well fuck prozac and birth control are already there. Why not?

Note how it works out in the end to 20% infected which is the most likely estimate for Herd Immunity.

I'm not saying this is correct. But it isn't unreasonable to assume that what we are seeing now in Spain and Europe is the true IFR.

Because we know that early on the testing levels were very very low and only capturing symptomatic and mostly severely symptomatic.

PCR tests by themselves are useless. Even more so with the sig delay in reporting.

They should prob take a PCR and antibody test at the same time.

"They also report that the amount of virus is associated with the detection of infectious SARS-CoV-2, and once neutralizing antibodies are detected in the serum the virus becomes non-infectious."

They also report that the amount of virus is associated with the detection of infectious SARS-CoV-2, and once neutralizing antibodies are detected in the serum the virus becomes non-infectious.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/infectiou ... -covid-19/

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:39 am Amen.

I mean you're russian or something so definitionally insane and weirdly goofy but yeah that was a good post.

After three decades some of you are still fascinated with the Northern Barbarians.

Well... I don't consider you people northern or barbarians.

A few of you are white but you're just insane weirdly goofy ppl who I should only see in youtube videos.

Bennyonesix1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:01 pm PCR tests by themselves are useless. Even more so with the sig delay in reporting.

They should prob take a PCR and antibody test at the same time.

Any test taken out of context from pre-test probability is of very limited value. I did explain it earlier in this or another thread, when the issiue of testing came up. It wasn't met with enthusiasm.

Kazuya Mishima wrote: ↑Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:59 pm So, my father-in-law tested positive for this shit. He is 69, somewhat obese...

How is he?

Just found out my brother-in-law has it. Lost his smell, bad headaches. Fully obese, 67, high school teacher of course. They’d already started school where he is at. His wife (my wife’s sister) is in a rehab recovering from a broken hip. Wonder if he visited her recently at the place. What a train wreck.

I imagine the school will send his students home for a couple of weeks. Parents be like what!?

Hey, best wishes to all and to your families.