Atlas Shrugged
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Atlas Shrugged
Post by Grandpa's Spells »
Very entertaining, and now I know where my libertarian friends are getting the whole "at the point of a gun" arguments.
As a philosophy, it's retarded. Ayn Rand has no answer for Bernie Madoff. LOL at Rush Limbaugh loving this book. He would fit in very comfortably with the villains in the novel.
As a philosophy, it's retarded. Ayn Rand has no answer for Bernie Madoff. LOL at Rush Limbaugh loving this book. He would fit in very comfortably with the villains in the novel.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by DrDonkeyLove »
There was a lot I liked about it. Considering the red scare in the 50's and Rand's Russian background in the early Bolshevik days, it makes for an interesting read. It's been quite a while but I can see sales of this book re-surging in the days of Pelosi/Reid/Obama. Surely state gov't in modern NY state represents what we see in the book.
IIRC the protagonist chick should have just fucked more and quit having to be "taken". The female attitude towards sex was either constrained by the times or Ayn really really craved the Maytag treatment.
Also, I don't know shit about Objectivism.
IIRC the protagonist chick should have just fucked more and quit having to be "taken". The female attitude towards sex was either constrained by the times or Ayn really really craved the Maytag treatment.
Also, I don't know shit about Objectivism.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party
DrDonkeyLove
Re: Atlas Shrugged
It's really an awful book compared to either We The Living or The Fountainhead.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
Pinky
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Btw, I'm pretty sure that, even at her most drug-addled point, Ayn Rand would have been in favor of the government prosecuting a con man.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by tough old man »
Yup. This. That there aint good readin'.It's really an awful book
Try "The Three Musketeers" by a guy named Dumas.
"I am the author of my own misfortune, I don't need a ghost writer" - Ian Dury
"Legio mihi nomen est, quia multi sumus."
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by Turdacious »
DrDonkeyLove wrote:IIRC the protagonist chick should have just fucked more and quit having to be "taken". The female attitude towards sex was either constrained by the times or Ayn really really craved the Maytag treatment.

I'm guessing she would have traded sex for cigarettes.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by Mickey O'neil »
I've got The Count of Monte Cristo sitting on my shelf that I haven't read yet. Really need to start on it. I want to read The Three Musketeers as well.tough old man wrote:Yup. This. That there aint good readin'.It's really an awful book
Try "The Three Musketeers" by a guy named Dumas.
Mickey O'neil
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by DrDonkeyLove »
It's been forever but I remember liking Atlas Shrugged well enough. There are zillions of novels about evil corporations and capitalists. To my knowledge it's the only paen to the productivity and contributions of the private sector. If more people had read it, there would be a better understanding of the contributions of businesses vs. the statism of the state bureaucracy.
I recently heard that the largest employer in my part of NY is the gov't. People and businesses are leaving in droves and government's reaction is to tax and regulate more...more...more. That can't end well and it's like the worst parts of her book come to life. With a little more Any Rand maybe CA, MI, NY, and other dystopias would be a little better off.
Maybe it's not the greatest read, but it's a valuable and necessary book.
I recently heard that the largest employer in my part of NY is the gov't. People and businesses are leaving in droves and government's reaction is to tax and regulate more...more...more. That can't end well and it's like the worst parts of her book come to life. With a little more Any Rand maybe CA, MI, NY, and other dystopias would be a little better off.
Maybe it's not the greatest read, but it's a valuable and necessary book.
Mao wrote:Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by Turdacious »
I never understood Rand's popularity. Crappy writer, simplistic themes. Of coarse, I never understood L Ron Hubbard's popularity either.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Turdacious
Re: Atlas Shrugged
This is apparently true.DrDonkeyLove wrote:Ayn really really craved the Maytag treatment.
He's not popular. I read once that Scientologists actually bought books at the bookstores and then their depot sent the same books back out again to drive up their numbers. Various bookstore employees attested to this. Remember, a book only has to be a "bestseller" on one date to plaster it all over your ads for the rest of time. The same with the survey. He'd never make a top 100 list of even just science fiction without koolaiders voting on command.Of coarse, I never understood L Ron Hubbard's popularity either.
"Why do we need a kitchen when we have a phone?"
Schlegel
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Wrong. Ayn Rand condemned fraud.Grandpa's Spells wrote: As a philosophy, it's retarded. Ayn Rand has no answer for Bernie Madoff.
Wrong again (mostly). Rand admired those who followed their own vision, tried & failed, then rose again to find success.Grandpa's Spells wrote: LOL at Rush Limbaugh loving this book. He would fit in very comfortably with the villains in the novel.
But she would have rejected Limbaugh's religious bent.
johno
Re: Atlas Shrugged
I think you are missing the point of his criticism. What Madoff did was in line with Objectivism's teleology in that he embodied a single-minded pursuit of his own happiness and rational self-interest.johno wrote:Wrong. Ayn Rand condemned fraud.Grandpa's Spells wrote: As a philosophy, it's retarded. Ayn Rand has no answer for Bernie Madoff.

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It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by Shafpocalypse Now »
You are all high if you think anything Rand wrote was worth the paper it was written on.
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Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by Grandpa's Spells »
Yes. Replace Madoff with any of the industrialists who engaged in seriously anti-competitive practices before anti-trust laws came into place. It seems to be A-OK to Rand. Understandably, since from her bio it looks like she absolutely lost her mind living under Soviet rule, and anything that was Opposite Day from her childhood probably looked great.What Madoff did was in line with Objectivism's teleology in that he embodied a single-minded pursuit of his own happiness and rational self-interest.
One of the downsides of the Internet is that it allows like-minded people to form communities, and sometimes those communities are stupid.
Grandpa's Spells
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Fat Cat wrote:I think you are missing the point of his criticism. What Madoff did was in line with Objectivism's teleology in that he embodied a single-minded pursuit of his own happiness and rational self-interest.johno wrote:Wrong. Ayn Rand condemned fraud.Grandpa's Spells wrote: As a philosophy, it's retarded. Ayn Rand has no answer for Bernie Madoff.
Rand's concept of self-interest was more expansive than that. She wrote extensively of her contempt for moochers and "Witch Doctors" (frauds).
johno
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Again, you're missing the point. Objectivism isn't about what Ayn Rand personally liked. She liked cigarettes too, does that represent rational self interest? Spells objection stands. That is all.

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
Fat Cat
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Not to defend the crazy Ruskie, but she did argue that frauds and moochers were not pursuing their rational self interest. Anyone who thinks Bernie Madoff was living according to her philosophy didn't read very carefully.
"The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all."
Pinky
Re: Atlas Shrugged
From Wikipedia:Fat Cat wrote:Again, you're missing the point. Objectivism isn't about what Ayn Rand personally liked.
I think Rand gets to define her own philosophy.Objectivism is the philosophy developed by the Russian-American philosopher and novelist Ayn Rand
Respect for individual rights is essential to Rand's social philosophy. She was not a solipsist....that the proper moral purpose of one's life is the pursuit of one's own happiness or rational self-interest; that the only social system consistent with this morality is full respect for individual rights, embodied in pure laissez faire capitalism
Her taste for cigarettes is as irrelevant to Objectivism as Christ's enjoyment of donkey rides is to Christianity.
johno
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Wrong. The moochers in this case are all the people who got sucked into his scam, thinking they were going to get rich by doing nothing. You both seem to have a hard time accepting that the application of Objectivism is ugly.Pinky wrote:Not to defend the crazy Ruskie, but she did argue that frauds and moochers were not pursuing their rational self interest. Anyone who thinks Bernie Madoff was living according to her philosophy didn't read very carefully.

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
Fat Cat
Re: Atlas Shrugged
LMAO. You don't get it.johno wrote:From Wikipedia:Fat Cat wrote:Again, you're missing the point. Objectivism isn't about what Ayn Rand personally liked.I think Rand gets to define her own philosophy.Objectivism is the philosophy developed by the Russian-American philosopher and novelist Ayn RandRespect for individual rights is essential to Rand's social philosophy. She was not a solipsist....that the proper moral purpose of one's life is the pursuit of one's own happiness or rational self-interest; that the only social system consistent with this morality is full respect for individual rights, embodied in pure laissez faire capitalism
Her taste for cigarettes is as irrelevant to Objectivism as Christ's enjoyment of donkey rides is to Christianity.

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
Fat Cat
Re: Atlas Shrugged
When I read this in college I really like it.
When I tried to re-read it like 6 months ago to get psyched for the recent start up adventure it seemed really juvenile. Everyone's a paper cut out of what a real person might actually be like. I can't imagine a self reflective adult with some life experience getting through this without thinking it's a book for teens.
When I tried to re-read it like 6 months ago to get psyched for the recent start up adventure it seemed really juvenile. Everyone's a paper cut out of what a real person might actually be like. I can't imagine a self reflective adult with some life experience getting through this without thinking it's a book for teens.
Growing old is not for sissies.
"I'm just here to regulate funkyness"
James Gandolfini in The Mexican
"I'm just here to regulate funkyness"
James Gandolfini in The Mexican
ab g-d
Re: Atlas Shrugged
I've read that late teens, early twenties students are a large part of her audience...in the I'm a misunderstood intellectual Superhero phase of life. Nietzsche gets a lot of play with that crowd also.
johno
Re: Atlas Shrugged
Nietzsche was a great philosopher. Rand was not.

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
Fat Cat