IGX

The Torah commands the Jews that, on the first night of Passover, they should tell their children about the exodus from Egypt. They do so by reading the Hagaddah (literally the “telling”) at the Passover seder (literally, "order"). The heart of the Hagaddah dates back 2000-2500 years ago and is found in the Talmud. The current normative text is probably 1200 years old. It tells the story of the exodus, explores the Passover commandments (matzoh, bitter herbs, telling the story, the Paschal sacrifice and the afikoman (literally, "dessert" from Greek)), and uses many symbols that it explains. Its goal is to stimulate endless study and discussion about slavery and freedom, good and evil, tragedy and victory, and the repetitions in history. It takes an hour to read but its depth is endless.

Chag Sameach.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I'm pretty sure the Jews stole this idea from Mad Max, Beyond Thunderdome. Max comes across an idyllic village of children who retell story of how they got there so they remember their history.

The best part is how it ends, with the dirty little thieves trucked off to Persia.

I was wondering if maybe retelling this story makes you determined to act for the cause of justice and protect the rights of all downtrodden peoples.

Careful you don't want Swindlerman to threaten you with erroneous lawsuits or embezzle your money.

It was honest curiosity as to how far "Never Again" extends.

Let's just say that if your name doesn't have "Silver", "Gold" or "Diamond" in it...you probably don't qualify.

GoDogGo! wrote:I was wondering if maybe retelling this story makes you determined to act for the cause of justice and protect the rights of all downtrodden peoples.

It does. The third love commandment in the Torah is that you shall love the stranger for you were strangers in Egypt.

So why don't Israelis love Palestinians?

To love the stranger means to love those who live among you and who wish to live with you in peace. It does not mean to love those whose aim is to destroy you. The Torah (and the Hagaddah) both stress that the appropriate response to those who seek to destroy you is to defend yourself and, if necessary, to destroy them.

So then the Haggadah endorses Hamas? Interesting...I didn't know that. So how should America treat Israel, when they are trying to destroy the USA?

Hamas=Amalek. For US/Israel cooperation in matters of national security, stay tuned for the presentation to Congress on Thursday on the nuclear reactor your side was trying to build in Syria.

Hey, by the way, did you notice the UN war tribunal acquitted Haradinaj and Balaj?

PlainTalk wrote:The Torah (and the Hagaddah) both stress that the appropriate response to those who seek to destroy you is to defend yourself and, if necessary, to destroy them.

Let's back up a minute. So the Torah suggests that Palestinians should destroy Israel, since Israel seeks to destroy them? Do I have that right?

No, Israel's the one with a democratically government explicitly committed to peace. Hamas is the one with the charter explicitly calling for killing the jews. With all those years in community college, you should be able to tell the two apart.

By the way, did you notice the UN war tribunal acquitted Haradinaj and Balaj? They seem to be taking all charges seriously and weighing evidence carefully.

As I think about it, that whole Kosovo episode could be the basis for its own hagaddah, telling the story of how the West saved the Albanians from the worst genocide since WWII.

PlainTalk wrote:No, Israel's the one with a democratically government explicitly committed to peace.

So, how does that work? You said:

PlainTalk wrote:The Torah (and the Hagaddah) both stress that the appropriate response to those who seek to destroy you is to defend yourself and, if necessary, to destroy them.

So by that standard, Palestinians are doing the right thing in trying to destroy their oppressors, including democratically electing Hamas Party representatives commited to this Talmudic principle. Is that right?

BTW, when you said this:

PlainTalk wrote:Palestianians = Amalek

You aren't by any chance a fan of Rabbi Israel Hess, are you?

Fat Cat wrote: BTW, when you said this:

PlainTalk wrote:Palestianians = Amalek

You aren't by any chance a fan of Rabbi Israel Hess, are you?

Nah, way too right wing. Do you have to resort to changing my quote to try to make one of your pathetic unsupportable pro-jihad arguments? The Palestinians are horribly abused by their jihadist leaders. Hamas=Amalek because their charter explicitly calls for killing all the Jews. While the Palestinians elected them, I do not believe that the majority of Palestinians, as a matter of belief, hope and pray for the Jews destruction. I think it is grossly irresponsible and incendiary to equate the Paelstinians with Amalek.

PlainTalk wrote:Hamas=Amalek because their charter explicitly calls for killing all the Jews.

But doesn't the Torah tell Jews to do the exact same thing? To kill their enemies? So how are you two any different again?

Fat Cat wrote:

PlainTalk wrote:Hamas=Amalek because their charter explicitly calls for killing all the Jews.

But doesn't the Torah tell Jews to do the exact same thing? To kill their enemies? So how are you two any different again?

The Jewish law of war, as codified 1000 years ago, differentiates between commanded wars like those against Amalek and Agag, for example, and non-commanded wars, which are governed roughly by what would be called a just war theory. Ever since the end of prophecy (roughly 2400 years ago in the normative Jewish tradition), there are no commanded wars.

Islam has a similar reasoned approach to the Koran, but its adherents are now in the minority and are not found in Hamas and its allies.

You didn't answer the question, Swindlerman.

Actually, KKKat, I gave you a precise answer. What do you think my answer neglects?

No, the precise answer to my questions is: yes.

Yes, the Torah says to kill your enemies.

Yes, Hamas says to kill their enemies.

Yes, there is no difference between the Jews and the Muslims in Palestine. You are killers, sons of killers, who know only killing.

Jeek, you mean State, not nation. By any definition, the Palestinians are a nation:

A nation is a defined cultural and social community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Jack wrote:For decades no one disputed that the PLO were the bad guys, since it was clearly.

This is fucking laughable. Google around. Plenty of folks sympathized with the PLO including some notable folks of Jewish descent.

Jack, absolute statements and most uses of the superlative show a lack of imagination and dearth of information.

Jack wrote:Or they're just absolutely correct, in this case. What's good for America is the only end result that matters. Israel = good for America more than PLO/Palestinians/Hamas.

Even though they murder our servicemen and steal our nuclear secrets?

There's no such thing as good guys and bad guys. We are all in this together.