IGX

Good write up,Odin.I see it more as a health program as well.

Honestly, it's good, but our own Tom Furman wrote a better book about minimalist fitness. If you absolutely need shit boiled down to two movements then you must have more worries than how to stay/get in shape.

More a case of that I at least needs reminding of good drills (i e get ups etc).I`ve got Tom`s Armor book and like that as well.

I'm following it. I like it because I don't need to know any Russian words to understand it. Maybe some Turkish. Wait, is "turkish" a Turkish word?

It fits into the rest of everything I am doing (MA, tons of skiing, running, MTBiking, a focused stretching and flexibility increasing effort based on Tom Kurz), without leaving me sore. The TGUs are challenging my shoulder mobility, particularly my left which is fubar at the moment. I am doing regular extra exercises to improve their mobility.

I do the warmup squats as wall squats to work on my crappy form and get full depth.

I've had really good success and happiness in my past with doing the same sort of workout every single day, whether it was the "roll out of bed and do 40 pushups" non-program that I did for a couple of years, or the ride the bike to work, or run, or a manual labor job digging ditches, etc. I can feel this routine working on me in the same way.

I needed to de-fat, and for me that means KBs. I agree that S&S is well worth $10 even if you've been doing cattleballs since the pre-RKC days.

I can understand why some people are comparing it to ETK (which I hated), but this is a much more appealing book. First, the price. Second, I always liked the idea of the PM, but this puts it in a form that I'll actually do. The old version (4-6 days/week, alternating workouts of DOD manmakers with 12-minute sessions of just TGUs) probably had the right priorities, but as much as I appreciated its minimalism intellectually, (a) I hate manmakers, (b) I'm not seriously going to get a timer for my TGUs, and (c) I'm really going to put on my Patagonia pants and go outside for just a bunch of TGUs? That's why I did the PM for, like, two days. It alternated something I hated with something I scorned as too easy, and it let me take days off at my discretion. So I just...took all the days starting with the third day off and gravitated to more interesting goals instead. But the message "Do this every day" is compelling to me, like DJ's/Gable's "If it's important, do it every day; if it's not, skip it," and by compelling I mean it gets me to do it every afternoon.

But is it EELEET enough? Probably, even for someone like me who's a high-speed low-drag tactically enhanced operator who's optimized for Tier One mil-spec SOPMOD covert Flat Dark Earth shit. There should be plenty of room to grow--you run a simple-but-not-easy progression from the 24kg bell up to the 48, and by the time you're finishing that workout in 16 minutes with 48kg, I think you'll blow away the ETK ROP without ever training for it. (And that's the only way I would try. Cycling L, M, and H days of swings and doing ladders with the OAP is a unique combo of discomfort, boredom, fatigue, and futility that would make me long for the variety and fast-paced excitement of GS.) I'm pretty committed to getting to that stage and then I'll reassess.

You'll run into issues far before you get into the 48s, what issues? I don't know, but something gay will pop up, it always does with these 'too simple' routines.

It typically has to do with pattern overload and boredom

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:You'll run into issues far before you get into the 48s, what issues? I don't know, but something gay will pop up, it always does with these 'too simple' routines.

It typically has to do with pattern overload and boredom

Yeah.. I'd do a pullup, pushup and pistol during days you skip. Kinda like Armor of War, LOL.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:boredom

This...if you're so goddamned busy that you can't have a half dozen basic routines that you rotate through...just shoot yourself.

Yeah but most people who would buy this don't have that as a main issue. Their main issue is being such a novelty-craving ADD retard that they try and do literally everything at once. If you need evidence of this, peruse the strongfirst forums. A typical thread will involve someone asking how they can combine S&S with running and barbells and yoga but maintain their swim practice and MMA training. They need to learn how to be bored and accept that they aren't as special as they think they are.

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:You'll run into issues far before you get into the 48s, what issues? I don't know, but something gay will pop up, it always does with these 'too simple' routines.

It typically has to do with pattern overload and boredom

If it happens, it will be elbow bursitis from the TGU for me. But if Allah wills it, I'll be protected by the Tommy Kono elbow sleeves.

The boredom doesn't faze me. Except for OAP ladders, which are the epitome of blaaaaaaah, I'm totally acclimated to dull, repetitive training from my Force Recon days.

Kazuya Mishima wrote:

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:I don't regret dropping the ten bucks for the Kindle copy but I can't say I got much out of it. I might be bored with all of it though. With that said, I was in Barnes & Noble last night and Steve Cotter has a new book that looks well done at a glance.

Kettleballz 4 Midgets?

:teehee

Kazuya Mishima wrote:

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:I don't regret dropping the ten bucks for the Kindle copy but I can't say I got much out of it. I might be bored with all of it though. With that said, I was in Barnes & Noble last night and Steve Cotter has a new book that looks well done at a glance.

Kettleballz 4 Midgets?

:teehee

My wife hates doing kettlebells. The sad thing is, she has the body type to get ripped from them. She does them only when the weather sucks up here and she doesn't want to go to the gym. So about once every 10 days. All she does is TGU's and swings. She's bored off her ass.

And if all I did was TGU's and swings, I'd hate it too.

This minimalism shit has got to stop. The TGU will make you great at TGU's The swing will make you great at swings. Together you'll get in "decent condition" Unfortunately there is so much ADD out there that it's caused a market for it. I'd rather do complexes and chains with a variety of exercises.

I like Furminator's brand of minimalism with Armor of War. The Pavel model of "boil it down to two moves, and do some specific mobility work to counter the eventual overuse injuries" is really not my cup of tea.

I was just saying today that Arnild's routines are far better for a beginner than Rippetoes

odin wrote:Yeah but most people who would buy this don't have that as a main issue. Their main issue is being such a novelty-craving ADD retard that they try and do literally everything at once. If you need evidence of this, peruse the strongfirst forums. A typical thread will involve someone asking how they can combine S&S with running and barbells and yoga but maintain their swim practice and MMA training. They need to learn how to be bored and accept that they aren't as special as they think they are.

The number of threads on SF forum about how S&S had saved my life or made me fucking incredible or given me a 500# DL or is teh bestest programz evaz ...is fucking ridiculous.

I bought the book because it was ten bucks but I think it could have been a blog post or and article quite easily.

...though it is probably ideal for total kb newbs.

I tried to follow the program but it bored me to death after a week. The flexibility of the old pm was it's appeal. This program is basically 'you must do this exact 30 minute workout every day or else.'


I'm still pretty convinced if you did pretty much anything with a kettlebell for 15-30 minutes a day you'd be on about the same track.

Do a few getups, some presses, pushups, pullups, goblet squats with sets of swings in between then walk round the gym/park/garage with your kb for a few minutes and be done with it. $10 pleaze

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:I was just saying today that Arnild's routines are far better for a beginner than Rippetoes

Real talk

Having done the program pretty much as written for 2 months, I will make a case for the defence here. Yes, agreed that a minimalist program like this has its limitations - this is accepted when you start one be it with the bells, your bodyweight or barbells. But for times when you have no specific events etc then this is absolutely fine. It can also fit in quite easily as part of a wider rotation of 'go-to' programs as referenced above. There is no requirement to commit to this until you die, it aint a marriage.

Re the comment above about just getting good at swings and TGU's, I feel this is not really much of a criticism. The same can be said of any program. Powerlifting gets you good at bench, squat and dead, running gets you good at running. Whatever. Your basic options are to choose a specialist program and get good at a few things or a very general one and get average at lots of things. Either route is fine unless you're getting paid for your athletic pursuits.

Back to the program, I think it's fairly solid. The exercise choice is about as good as it gets with the bells. The swing and get up seem to cover a lot of bases: strength where you need it, injury prevention, movement screening etc. I have an active job, and this compliments it nicely, strengthening areas prone to injury and providing sufficient strength-endurance to do what is required of me. The only deficiency I see is the absence of an upper pull. I get round this with bouldering sessions once a week and chins whenever I use a gym, (once or twice a month). I also added a set of push ups in the warm up - this is because I feel more solid in my midsection after a set of push ups and training first thing in the morning requires a careful warm up.

It wont cure bad AIDS, but it pretty much does what it says it will. My plan is to stick to this until I hit the 48kg targets, and then switch it up with something equally minimal, equally limited but slightly different. 50/20 perhaps.

If anyone here doing the program has iffy or bad shoulders, has this helped them in anyway. I know I had some shoulder issues a few years back and TGUs seemed to help them but I was also doing other things as well. I know Martone was big on kb arm bars and TGUs for his shoulders.

Mickey O'neil wrote:If anyone here doing the program has iffy or bad shoulders, has this helped them in anyway. I know I had some shoulder issues a few years back and TGUs seemed to help them but I was also doing other things as well. I know Martone was big on kb arm bars and TGUs for his shoulders.

Could you just try incorporating 1-3 getups per side into your daily warmup?

Mickey,it has helped my shoulders.Late last year before starting doing TGU s I was wondering how long until I had to go to the doctor (surgery?) and after just a couple of weeks of doing get ups 4-6 times a week the problems just vanished.
Before I started I could sleep with my hands behind my head because of the pain,so if your shoulders are iffy,give the get ups a try (+ I stopped benching every week as well,that could have helped as well9.

Mickey O'neil wrote:If anyone here doing the program has iffy or bad shoulders, has this helped them in anyway. I know I had some shoulder issues a few years back and TGUs seemed to help them but I was also doing other things as well. I know Martone was big on kb arm bars and TGUs for his shoulders.

Arm-bars, TGUs and monkey bar walks (yes, I'm serious) are magic manna for your shoulders.

SubClaw wrote: monkey bar walks (yes, I'm serious) are magic manna for your shoulders.

Dan John said he had his javelin throwers do these with much success.

odin,

Congrats...just curious, how many days a week did you average? As with Dan's 40-Day Program, high consistency is the key to making it work. I did the 40 Day a few years ago and liked it; I'm sure I'd like S&S as well.

Gold. http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/smolov-cycle-with-ss/

Dude: "I just started Smolov. I am going to add 130# to my squat in six weeks. And I'm going to add S&S. But don't worry, just twice a week. You know, for recovery."

Pavel: "Um, maybe just take a walk instead."