IGX

Realistic violence, drama, sex, power, brother hood, honor, redemption and duty, to your state but also to your brothers.

Yeah you would guess that Darth is predesposed to movies and shows about Rome, but alot of them suck to me, not this.
To be honest, IMO it monkey stomps Gladiator.

The story has several layers and many different characters and perspectives. The show is something different to everyone.
To some it's the story of the fall of the Republic and the jockying for power after the death of Giaus Julius Caeser by his family, his right hand man, and his assasins.
To me the most important story though is the tale of 2 Roman soldiers, 1 Centurion, Lucious Vorenus and 1 Legonary, Titus Pollo.
(Both were actual people, but they were both Centurions and were of the 10th Legion, not the somtimes inept and disloyal 13th Gallic that the show puts them in, effectivly treating the 13th like the 10th- The 10th was known as "Caser's Own" in his time and later The Famous 10th, that brought down the jews in Jerluselem and Massada)
Dramatic changes and historic accuracy aside though, this is a tale of 2 men who started out at odds (in the 1st show of season 1, Vorenus has sentenced Pollo to be executed for striking a Centurion) but grew to first trust and respect each other, depend on each other and come to love each other as brothers.
The evolution of their relationship goes through many turns.
When one is in the shit, the other rises to his aid and visa versa.
When Vorenus thinks his kids are in the custody of a Gangster, it's Pullo by his side as they kill everone in his tavern.
When Vorenus thinks his family is gone, it's Pollo who enlist the aid of their old Commnader, Mark Antony to put Vorenus on his feet with one of the best tough love speeches ever.
" Dis is not your master, I am! and you swore it under the the standard of the 13th." before making him boss of the Avatine Collegium (kind of like the Mob.)
Even after a violent falling out (Their 2nd or 3rd in the whole show) when Pollo learns the truth of the fate of Vorenuses' children, it's Pollo who tracks him down after the battle of Mutina, and together the embrk on for me the defining scene of their brotherhood and a chance at redemption for the troubled Vorenus.
It's also the tale of how Pollo goes from a hell raising, imature whoremongering grunt with liitle self control or civility, into at times the leader in the relationship, and to higher things.

In the end, their brother hood is more important than their loyalties to the state, Antony or Octavian.

I identafy with Vorenus a good deal, the old lady says he's like me but x's 10 and Pollo is Crom if he was a whoremonger=)

This is one of the best shows ever IMO.

Oh yeah, great fuck scenes, great fight scenes, awesome acting and dialoge.
"As for me I intend to retire to my farm, plow my fields and fuck my slaves like Cinncinatus of old."- Mark Antony to Brutus, Cassius, Ciccero and Sevillia.

" I am a son of Hades and I fuck Concord in her arese!" Vorenus, letting the other gangleaders know he could give fuck what they think, their bitch god and that he is the new boss in town.

I think Rome is the best show that HBO ever put out. Rome season 2 was excellent. I did not think the ending was as strong as it could have been but overall the season was great.

DARTH wrote:To be honest, IMO it monkey stomps Gladiator.
...
This is one of the best shows ever IMO.
...
Oh yeah, great fuck scenes, great fight scenes, awesome acting and dialoge.

From what I have seen, I agree.

Rome was great but Carnivale which proceeded it was 10 times better. I've watched all but the last 2 episodes in the last week. Cant stop watching them.
I understand they canceled it to put on Rome.

Superb acting
great plots & very creative sub-plots
good vs evil all around, weird psychic shit

all takes place in 1934 in the Dust Bowl. Totally authentic clothing, cars buildings etc. The found an old bottle of hair tonic that had never been opened and used it for one sequence in a scene!

Get it, watch it

johno wrote:

DARTH wrote:To be honest, IMO it monkey stomps Gladiator.
...
This is one of the best shows ever IMO.
...
Oh yeah, great fuck scenes, great fight scenes, awesome acting and dialoge.

From what I have seen, I agree.

Make a point of watching it in order, great entertasinment.

The following is JMO.

The show was about the change from a Republic into the Empire.

Vorenus represents the old Rome; the Republic, the family, the political tribes, tradition. Vorenus is an unwilling participant in the events of the Roman civil wars. However, ironically he is duty bound to serve men he detests and hates because of their dictatorial ways. Vorenus's life and death is symbolic of the life & death of the Republic.

Pollo represents the new Rome; the empire, the mob, violence for violence sake. Pollo has no trouble working for the highest bidder or the side he thinks will win. He has no problem killing so long as he is paid for it. Pollo is not bound to the family, the tribe, etc. Pollo lives because he is what Rome has become; a vicious killer without any scruples.

Pullo.

Dave wrote:Rome was great but Carnivale which proceeded it was 10 times better.

My wife was All Up In that show, because she's a 20th Century Am historian. She loved it. I watched a few and I have to admit, they got the period down cold. Clothes, cars, even the language and the Black Blizzards.

Didn't really turn my crank but I agree that it was very well done. The parts about Babylon were creepy.

Batboy2/75 wrote:The following is JMO.

The show was about the change from a Republic into the Empire.

Vorenus represents the old Rome; the Republic, the family, the political tribes, tradition. Vorenus is an unwilling participant in the events of the Roman civil wars. However, ironically he is duty bound to serve men he detests and hates because of their dictatorial ways. Vorenus's life and death is symbolic of the life & death of the Republic.

Pollo represents the new Rome; the empire, the mob, violence for violence sake. Pollo has no trouble working for the highest bidder or the side he thinks will win. He has no problem killing so long as he is paid for it. Pollo is not bound to the family, the tribe, etc. Pollo lives because he is what Rome has become; a vicious killer without any scruples.

It is very common with British TV shows to have a set run, some, like Prime Suspect come back in short runs.

As much as I love that show, I am happy they ended it like they did.
It was not all roses, Vorenus was my favorite charchter, but his death was good for the story, it's like life, you can't always get what you want.
Half of art is knowing when to quite.

It be cool if they did another series though, maybe tell the story around Scipio Africanus and Hannibal, that tale is a classic of defeat, revenge and redemption, for both men.

Hannibal's father raised him to hate and destroy the Romans.

Scipio lost his father and uncle to the Carthagenians. (after saving them in a preivious battle)
He inspired the defeated Roman officers and men who survived Cannae to regroup and fight another day.

Scipio was the man who took the war to Carthage's doorstep and beat one of the greatist Generals ever, at his own damn game. (The battle of Zama was nearly an identacal situation to Cannae, but this time it was the Romans who won.)

Little known fact of history, Hannibal and Scipio met years later in another country (after Hannibals exhile and Scipio was screwd over by Polticol enemeis (Both men were screwd by their politicol leaders, Hannibal was denied reenforcements and money to lay seig to Rome and beat them once and for all. Scipio was just pushed aside by men who feared his popularity and power.) nThey actually had a terse conversation and at the end they were treating each other like old friends. SCipio ask Hannibal " Who is the greatist general in history?"

Hannibal said " Well Alexander, folloed by Phyrris and then himself." Scipio said "And what if I did not defeat you?" Hanmnibal said " I would have been number one."
That would be an awesome ending to it.

Ameircans would identify better with Rome durring the 2nd Punic war more than most periods, particularly the Principate (Time of the Emporers, lots of those guys had no redeming qualities, Tiberius, Caligula, Nero were shitbags who never would have survived in the Republican period)

The 2nd Punic war was like their WW2, their back was against the wall, but they did not stop, took hoorible loses but still kept cming.

Lots of interesting people in that war, Fabius the Delayer, who George Washington based his overall stratigy, durring the Revolution upon, is another big charchter.

Seriously guys , read up on the 2nd Punic War, Hoolywoood cant write a better script, and it happend for real.

SPQR! The Senate, The People and the Republic of Rome.

(We are based more on Roman ideals than the Greeks. We are a Constitutional Republic, not a fucking Democracy, maybe it;s why Roman power lasted longer, but the desolving of the Republic ultimatly led to their fall.
Next time you see the House and Senate chambers, look for a Facis on either side of the flag(Bundle of Rods and the Axe, the symbol of authority, the power to punish and the power to execute) Jefferson wanted that as our national symbol and dont think the Eagle does not harken back to Rome, it's one of the reasons for the Bald Eagle being our symbol, a native creature but an old, powerfull species and symbol of might.
Actually thinking of getting a Bald eagle on my left shoulder and the Roman eagle on my right.

Rome was cancelled because it was ridiculously expensive. It has the largest or one of the largest sets every created for TV. HBO got new management and decided to trim a lot of expenses. Deadwood got pulled for similar reasons (the expense typically being the incredible amout of film used by Milch to perfect his vision).

The best thing about Rome, IMHO, was the set design and the great job of presenting pre-Christian Rome. They had some decent classicists working with the writers and designers. The plots and stories were not much above daytime soap stuff.

But for the visuals and classics geeks, good stuff.

onealjn wrote:Rome was cancelled because it was ridiculously expensive. It has the largest or one of the largest sets every created for TV. HBO got new management and decided to trim a lot of expenses. Deadwood got pulled for similar reasons (the expense typically being the incredible amout of film used by Milch to perfect his vision).

The best thing about Rome, IMHO, was the set design and the great job of presenting pre-Christian Rome. They had some decent classicists working with the writers and designers. The plots and stories were not much above daytime soap stuff.

But for the visuals and classics geeks, good stuff.

I have heard through interveiws with the producers and some actors that it was allways planned to end when it did, very common with BBC productions, who actually put more $$$ into the sereis than HBO, who handled the writting and direction.
I'm on the mailing list =)

DARTH wrote:

onealjn wrote:Rome was cancelled because it was ridiculously expensive. It has the largest or one of the largest sets every created for TV. HBO got new management and decided to trim a lot of expenses. Deadwood got pulled for similar reasons (the expense typically being the incredible amout of film used by Milch to perfect his vision).

The best thing about Rome, IMHO, was the set design and the great job of presenting pre-Christian Rome. They had some decent classicists working with the writers and designers. The plots and stories were not much above daytime soap stuff.

But for the visuals and classics geeks, good stuff.

I have heard through interveiws with the producers and some actors that it was allways planned to end when it did, very common with BBC productions, who actually put more $$$ into the sereis than HBO, who handled the writting and direction.
I'm on the mailing list =)

Jesus Darth, have you been going to night school? Thanks for the corrections. I just did some googling and it seems that the BBC was mainly in charge of pulling the plug. Partly due to budgetary reasons and also due to the reasons you stated (all speculation).

Thanks again.

onealjn wrote:

DARTH wrote:

onealjn wrote:Rome was cancelled because it was ridiculously expensive. It has the largest or one of the largest sets every created for TV. HBO got new management and decided to trim a lot of expenses. Deadwood got pulled for similar reasons (the expense typically being the incredible amout of film used by Milch to perfect his vision).

The best thing about Rome, IMHO, was the set design and the great job of presenting pre-Christian Rome. They had some decent classicists working with the writers and designers. The plots and stories were not much above daytime soap stuff.

But for the visuals and classics geeks, good stuff.

I have heard through interveiws with the producers and some actors that it was allways planned to end when it did, very common with BBC productions, who actually put more $$$ into the sereis than HBO, who handled the writting and direction.
I'm on the mailing list =)

Jesus Darth, have you been going to night school? Thanks for the corrections. I just did some googling and it seems that the BBC was mainly in charge of pulling the plug. Partly due to budgetary reasons and also due to the reasons you stated (all speculation).

Thanks again.

Been reading alot more of late.

Barring economic collapse, I plan to start school in the fall. Western Civ 1 and either a Bizz or computer coarse. I am going to be a 2 class a semester student for a couple of years.

If my bizz gets to where I want it in 3-4 years (My own facility) then I plan on ramping up and eventually going full time.

You all will laugh your asses off, but I am going to take the long (or maybe not 2 long, unmarried dad over 35, looking into grants and my GED score was pretty damn high except math and spelling) way to a PhD in World History, with a bent towards Roman and American Histrory. I'm going to teach HS than College, the best thing I can do for my country is to help educate people about History, because these people might vote.

Also if I, a HS dropout, who worked the trades and now does PT can turn it around and dive into education and accomplish something of note in academics, than my kids will be more likely to grasp the importance of education.
No one cares or cuts breaks for white boys anymore.

DARTH wrote:

onealjn wrote:

DARTH wrote:

onealjn wrote:Rome was cancelled because it was ridiculously expensive. It has the largest or one of the largest sets every created for TV. HBO got new management and decided to trim a lot of expenses. Deadwood got pulled for similar reasons (the expense typically being the incredible amout of film used by Milch to perfect his vision).

The best thing about Rome, IMHO, was the set design and the great job of presenting pre-Christian Rome. They had some decent classicists working with the writers and designers. The plots and stories were not much above daytime soap stuff.

But for the visuals and classics geeks, good stuff.

I have heard through interveiws with the producers and some actors that it was allways planned to end when it did, very common with BBC productions, who actually put more $$$ into the sereis than HBO, who handled the writting and direction.
I'm on the mailing list =)

Jesus Darth, have you been going to night school? Thanks for the corrections. I just did some googling and it seems that the BBC was mainly in charge of pulling the plug. Partly due to budgetary reasons and also due to the reasons you stated (all speculation).

Thanks again.

Been reading alot more of late.

Barring economic collapse, I plan to start school in the fall. Western Civ 1 and either a Bizz or computer coarse. I am going to be a 2 class a semester student for a couple of years.

If my bizz gets to where I want it in 3-4 years (My own facility) then I plan on ramping up and eventually going full time.

You all will laugh your asses off, but I am going to take the long (or maybe not 2 long, unmarried dad over 35, looking into grants and my GED score was pretty damn high except math and spelling) way to a PhD in World History, with a bent towards Roman and American Histrory. I'm going to teach HS than College, the best thing I can do for my country is to help educate people about History, because these people might vote.

Also if I, a HS dropout, who worked the trades and now does PT can turn it around and dive into education and accomplish something of note in academics, than my kids will be more likely to grasp the importance of education.
No one cares or cuts breaks for white boys anymore.

Two very bright and successful people I know don't spell any better than you. That said, your creative spelling isn't going to play well in the academic world. A trusted proof reader will be a big help to you. Have you been tested for dyslexia or similar challenge? If not, it might be a good idea and could conceivably open you up to some grant monies and/or slack at grading time.

I would love for my kids to be in your class - seriously.

DARTH wrote: No one cares or cuts breaks for white boys anymore.

Nigga, please.
My wife and I heard the same shit all through her PhD program at Brown. One (white) guy in particular. "Oh, you're Latina, you'll get all the breaks, I won't be able to get a job, wah wah."

What happened?

He graduated, his advisor made a phone call. Bam.

Tenure-track job, at a VERY prestigious university which shall remain nameless. Even he admits that the interview was a formality and the "job search" was a sham.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:That said, your creative spelling isn't going to play well in the academic world. A trusted proof reader will be a big help to you.

This was my original point. His spelling and post construction are fucking light years beyond what it was before. Given another four months and he just might win that spelling bee. That said, never hurts to be tested for dylexia.

BTW, congratulations Darth on the work so far and good luck with your plans. After University, you might end up a Democrat.

onealjn wrote:BTW, congratulations Darth on the work so far and good luck with your plans. After University, you might end up a Democrat.

Onealjn , GDG and Doctor Love


I'm becoming a Libertarian in many respects, but I'll allways be an advocate of a strong, proactive Military, the more history I read reenforces that beleif.

What I ment by no breaks for white boys was not in collegew, but gone are the days when you can get out of HS, bang nails and make a good living , have your own home and send your kids to school. The World is getting smaller and there is more compitition, I want my boys to have all the skills to pay the bills, get rich and take care of Poppa when I am shitting in my Depends.

I know I will be taken all the boot english classes to get my spelling,grammer and punctuation down, or i will be eaten alive in college. I'm looking at this liek a long war I must win.

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement guys.

Dr. Darth

That sounds great Darth. Good luck brotha!

DARTH wrote: What I ment by no breaks for white boys was not in collegew, but gone are the days when you can get out of HS, bang nails and make a good living , have your own home and send your kids to school. The World is getting smaller and there is more compitition, I want my boys to have all the skills to pay the bills, get rich and take care of Poppa when I am shitting in my Depends.

That is all very true.

You could do worse than to start with something other than:

The Elements of Style, Fourth Edition

It's a bit dated. Some of the style comments are a hoot; the punctuation and grammar sections are clear and concise.

Thanks, it's on the list for next upcoming book buying orgy.

DARTH wrote:Thanks, it's on the list for next upcoming book buying orgy.

Spark Charts might be helpful. They are card stock folded so you get 4 pages of essentials. Cheap and handy. They're available at B&N or Borders, maybe both. Lots of subjects available BTW.

Darth, let us know if you take up Latin. Might be worthwile, since you got a hard on for shit Roman.

You might want to check out the epic Masters of Rome series of books. They are written by a broad, but are very well researched and the first book, The First Man in Rome is fucking great. The next book The Grass Crown is also bitchin. Those two cover the rise of Marius and Sulla. The rest are pretty much McCullough masturbating about Julius Caesar. Still good stuff.

Masters of Rome

EDIT: Actually she takes three volumes to get to Sulla's height. Marius and Sulla rule (literally).

onealjn wrote:Darth, let us know if you take up Latin. Might be worthwile, since you got a hard on for shit Roman.

You might want to check out the epic Masters of Rome series of books. They are written by a broad, but are very well researched and the first book, The First Man in Rome is fucking great. The next book The Grass Crown is also bitchin. Those two cover the rise of Marius and Sulla. The rest are pretty much McCullough masturbating about Julius Caesar. Still good stuff.

Masters of Rome

EDIT: Actually she take three volumes to get to Sulla's height. Marius and Sulla rule (literally).

I've been looking for a new series. It sounds like a trip to B&N is in order.