Things are looking up and I will be in the market to get a rifle/carbine.
Seeing as I don't want to have to drop a lot of money for a good, reliable AR, AKs will start going through the roof with Obama's sanctions on Russian firearms (meaning the Romanian and others will also go up in price, count on it.) I am reaching back to my youth and the Rugar Mini-14.
It's better these days than the one I carried around the woods in the 80s. The barrels are thincker and there are tons of accessories and spare parts for them.
You can get them in the $500-$700 range, new.
They are reliable, decently accurate, shoot 5.56.
I can also over time outfit my family with them, one for me, one for the woman and then as the kids hit the teens, get them each ones as well. Doing that with good ARs, that are not finicky about ammo would cost a lot of $$$$, where as outfitting the family with Mini's would be $$.
Model# 5847 is what I am thinking. I don't need pistol grips and bullshit. Just like that it's as good as the weapon that won WW2, just hits a bit lighter but shoots straiter and has a detachable mag. Shit it;s the M-1 Carbine gone to Westside!
I would not want a bunch of shit on it, a scout scope would make it better and maybe a light weight tac flashlight.
No they don't. It would be great if they did. Ruger makes an AR I;ve heard decent things about. It be great if they started making Mini's that are AR mag compatible. Dead Cops/Obama Troopers in Thunderdome? "Grab their mags boys but leave the M-4s, they put RFI's in those. They bring helicopters, and we try not to fuck with those. And break the mags open real quick to make sure there is nothing in those." ;-)
I like the old school furniture, updated in synthetic on those, and except for the 20 - 30 rd mag, they look like any normal rifle to the uninitiated.
And if I had several, I could always A-Team one for shits and giggles.
Last edited by DARTH on Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
The price of non Russian AK will not be going up. The USA is awash in AKs.
Buy a Yugo N-PAP AK and call it a day. Best AK being imported for money today. Not effected by any of the Russian/Ukrainian import ban bullshit. yugos make some of the best AKs.
AKs and AK accessories, even non Russian AKs and AK accessories have already increased price a little bit around here since last month. They will go up more, just because people will take advantage, not any real shortages.
Not that I don't want an AK or 2 eventually, I like AKs a lot but I am putting together several factors and the new Minis come out good with all that considered. (and it's not entirly impractical to carry a Mini and have an undefoliner AK in the ruck.
- I also want the 5.56 accurate hit probability beyond 100 yards over the AK. A standard AK is not going to hit as accuratly at 100 - 300 yards (and I am moving to the country, where it's a mix of woods, mountains and open fields. A Mini is good for all 3, an AK for 2.
-I want 5.56 because it is the easier to get round, especially if the kind of situation arises where these are more than just home defense and fun guns. (And the 870 is the chief home defense long arm here) Military, Cops and Fed have ammo for it, not for the AK as a standard. Whether the relation shi with them is good or hostile, good chance of them being a source of ammo in some way. Only other AK owners will have 7.62 x 39, so once I was out, I'd have a bunch of Com Block clubs.
- I can outfit the whole family with them and mags than I can with AR's I'd trust our lives to.
- The Ol' lady grew up shooting an M-1 carbine, and a semi auto 10/22, this would be a comfortable upgrade and lower the time it took for her to get used to the weapon.
- I grew up with the older ones and I loved it and they are better now than those old ones, the thicker barrel being the main improvement and the standard sights are better than they were.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Dan Martin wrote:I believe the Marlin lever action in either .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum to be the "best" choice given today's anti-gun climate. YMMV
If things get so bad that semi autos are banned in mopre than just Liberal fuck holes, where I want people to die,? Yes.
But if it gets that bad, then anyone with a pair of balls is fighting and give fuck all about the laws as you are endeavouring to kill all who enacted or enforce them.
Both are good guns, just because they are good carbines and you can match your wheel gun and carbine, like many used to do. And some still do.
Father has a Winchester lever action .44Mag.. Nice gun but it has frustrating feeding issues and is going to the smith's.
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
I've got the Marlin lever in .45 colt, it's the cowboy edition with the octagonal barrel, and I added the marbles tang peep site. I used it for cowboy action shooting. It is, without a doubt, one of my favorite guns to shoot, real fun, accurate too. It's also way too heavy for the zombie apocalypse or shit hits the fan scenarios.
With some .45 colt hunting rounds, it's killer on hogs.
Maybe it's from watching old westerns but I really enjoy shooting lever action. Check out http://www.grizzlycustom.com *EDIT* I should write that I really enjoy shooting my marlin 39A...not the 30/30 as mentioned below. Yes I'm a pussy. but shooting should be fun not a pain endurance contest***
I have a wood stock mini 14. It is a solid weapon and pretty accurate with the iron sights (user error is the only problem). I like it because it doesn't look tacti-cool, it's versatile and easy to shoot. I shot a friend's lever action 30/30 in the later stages of my shoulder healing from surgery and I had to stop after a few rounds. The rifle transmitted the full recoil to my shoulder. That gun would probably squash a kid or wife's desire to go shooting again. The mini 14 is a smooth drive in comparison for obvious reasons.
You might consider looking at a .22 conversion kit also. That way your family can put a lot more down range and in turn get more comfortable with the weapon and build good habits (no anticipation of recoil etc just stay on target and be smooth).
The Mini-14 is a solid little rifle. Have an older Mini-30, myself. I'm not sure it's what to go with based on the reasons you gave, however.
There is no inherent problem with 7.62x39 when it comes to accuracy. Sure, you are going to have noticeably more drop from 200 to 300 yard than with a 5.56 M855, but if you know what that drop *is*, there you go.
The problem, as I see it (literally, as my rifle marksmanship changed with age), is usually sights. It's tough to get long-distance hits with the crappy open sights on an AK. Especially with no real ability to hold a cheek weld on said AK.
BUT, unless your eyes are way better than mine, the flatter-shooting 5.56 does not give you all that much advantage with the peep sights on the Mini-14 unless you have all day to set up your shot.
So, if you *actually* think that the purpose you are going to employ this rifle for will have you taking 200yd+ shots on a regular basis, for the same price point ($500) we've been talking you can put together a *very* solid little AR-platform gun that you could put a semi-decent optic on.
Buy what you want. If the mini 14 is what you want then go for. However, some unsolicited advice from a former mini14 owner.
Use only Ruger factory magazines. All of the other metal mags out there are complete crap. Don't get suckered by price. The only polymer mag I can recommend is TAPCO generation II mini14 mags. A lot of TAPCOs stuff in the past was sketchy at best. However, their generation 2 mini 14 mags are actually pretty good. Plus they are cheaper than the Ruger factory mags.
The Mini14 is a 2 MOA rifle a best; scope it if you want to take long shots. It is not going to be any more accurate than the AK, using iron sights. BTW- AKs are not bad accuracy wise if you use good ammo in them. Since most people use crap ammo, they get crap results. Plus, most reports of bad accuracy are from US troops fighting 3rd world savages that are using Aks usually made out of pig iron, hardly maintained and have no concept of marksmanship.
Fuck scout scopes. Unless you buy a very expensive mounting system, most of your scout scope mounts with the mini 14 are complete wastes of time. Buy a decent 1-4 power illuminated scope and mount it in a traditional scope configuration. The Burris MTAC is a good mid level entry scope. A good bargain 1-4 scope is the primary arms line of scopes; take a look at their 1-4 power scopes. If you feel adventurous take a look at their 6 x power illuminated scope. With your set up & considering a SHTF scenario, put the idea of CQB out of your head. CQB is for soldiers with tons of support etc. Your strategy is to be a ghost and taking distance shots.
The Mini14, as it is manufactured today, is a 1-9 twist rate. This means you are probably topped out at 69gr bullets. Also, never, ever, ever use FMJ 5.56 in your mini14 in a self defense scenario. The US government signed the Hague convention; you didn't. Stock up on HP and JHP and soft point rounds that use know open/tumble early and penetrate. Use FMJ for plinking and practice. Also, never run combloc steel case ammo through your mini14. Not because of the cases, but because the bullets are bi-metal and they will wear out your barrel faster than normal. With that said, never bump fire or quick fire your mini14. The generated heat will fuck up your barrel and make it wear out faster.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
We had 2 Mini's in the 80s, one set up with a folding stock, the other regular, later the old man put a scout on it.
I always shoot good with it, had few jams, and I rapid fired the shit out of it.
They are supposed to be better than they were, with the thicker barrel and different sights.
The mags are expensive.
I agree that a good AR is better and AKs are great fighting guns. I shoot well with AKs in under 100 yards.
Personally I like 7.62 NATO more than 5.56 or 7.62 Warsaw Pact. But again its a bunch of considerations that are leaning me to the Mini, not just for a gun for me but one I can realistically arm the whole family with and be able to get ammo if shit gets dark, not just what I have stockpiled. All that together is where the Mini is looking good.
I had an AR, a Bushmaster. Never did shit with it. The guy I got it off told me it was finicky about feeding ammo, suggested to use only the military shit (and I am with you Bats, fuck the Hauge! with 5.56 I want a bullet that expands and keeps the shock all in their body, not flying down the valley out of their back.) I had some black tips and it had feeding problems just charging the gun.
I mean if money was not an object, the Mini would not be on the table. H&K 416, Steyer AUG, IRock River Arms AR and IMI Tavor ( A buddy, Marine 2 war vet has a Tavor and loves it. Not as much as his AR, but as he pointed out he has that AR exactly how he wants it after years of playing with it and he's a Marine and was raised on that gun. Me? I like Bullpups, when they work.) for 5.56, Romanian or Saiga for the AK and I have a real hard on for M-14s, G3s and FALs, but again, ammo in dark times is a consideration for a rifle/carbine for the whole family.
I have not done it yet, might change my mind? And even if I do decide to arm the family with the Mini, that is not the only gun I want to get.
I have to spend money on a Smart Phone, another car and a pile of bills first, but with the new job I am once again considering expanding my firearms collection. What I have is fine for the burbs, not much an 870 pump cant handle with the proper ammo in this environment but where I am going, there are many areas with open fields and such.
Thanks all for your thoughts, experiences and knowledge.
If I lived near Bats, I'd beg get him to teach me how to ground up ARs and AKs like he does. I would not have to worry about finicky feeding. A good AR is about the best 5.56 weapon you can have, but good is a grand and up. :-)
An old Mauser K98 is on the list for the fun of it and for the war with Bambi I want to wage when we move to the country. Iron Dog put a new barrel on his and it's a tack driver with a lot of ass!
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Friend has one, well semi auto version and loves it. He loves his AR more but it is tricked out after years of owning it and he's a Jarhead who has used M-16s and M-4s in anger.
If I was going to shell out for this, then I'd be able to shell out for the Tax stamp and get the real thing.
Anyone know any IDF who has used this in anger?: Hows the reliability for them?
Like the IDEA of bullpups, actual experiences vary. We had an AUG at the range I was in love with. The FAMUS not so much (But TOM can give us the skinny on the real deal French Army version.) Never fired the British Enfield SA-80, the stories I hear of it sounds like the story of the M-16, from hated POS to beloved weapon.
I like the idea of having a full size rifle in a carbine size package, especially if it's 5.56. That's a good round when it's at full velocity, take that away...
"God forbid we tell the savages to go fuck themselves." Batboy
Dan Martin wrote:I believe the Marlin lever action in either .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum to be the "best" choice given today's anti-gun climate. YMMV
A classicist, I see. Nice choice, also Henry Repeating Arms makes beautiful lever action rifles right here in the USA as well.
"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
It is our job to see that it stays there." - George Orwell
Batboy2/75 wrote:
.....With your set up & considering a SHTF scenario, put the idea of CQB out of your head. CQB is for soldiers with tons of support etc. Your strategy is to be a ghost and taking distance shots.....
Get a scout rifle and be done with it. Like BB said, nless you plan on laying down suppressive fire for maneuver elements or are part of an assault team, you don't need the rate of fire. If you want a real zombie bug out rifle you still don't need rate of fire. This has been proven in my extensive and scientific study of zombies and zombie movies where reliability is the watch word and speed unimportant. The best SHTF fan rifle is a pellet rifle.
I'm going to be putting together a rifle this fall. Going with PSA AR-15 components. Right now I'm leaning towards a 20" barrel from FN. Should still be under $700 altogether. After that likely a Savage bolt action in 308, although it's possible I'll change my mind and assemble an AR-10.
Also, never run combloc steel case ammo through your mini14. Not because of the cases, but because the bullets are bi-metal and they will wear out your barrel faster than normal.
This is great advice. It is crazy how the same gun barrel, shooting plain old cheap federal stuff will last for 10,000 rounds, but with the Wolf and Brown Bear accuracy goes to shit at 4,000.
Also, I agree on the 7.62. My favorite rifle is a 7.62 where I built the lower, and put on the DPMS SASS upper and a SWFA super sniper scope, but I have had even more fun shooting it with iron sights in 3-gun "heavy metal." Also, used to use it with 180gr soft points to shoot hogs in AL and FL.
The problem is that with the ammo issues of the last couple years I can't pay $1+ per round to shoot Gold Metal Match through the thing, but I can still find M855 for my 5.56 rifles for less than $.30 a round, which is the ammo that I have never had a problem with in terms of running an AR bolt.
Also, in terms of both a 'nice' and 'fun' rifle, I am a huge mark for both FALs and M-14s.
Long live 7.62x51...
______________________ "I'm something new entirely, with my own set of rules."
Also, never run combloc steel case ammo through your mini14. Not because of the cases, but because the bullets are bi-metal and they will wear out your barrel faster than normal.
This is great advice. It is crazy how the same gun barrel, shooting plain old cheap federal stuff will last for 10,000 rounds, but with the Wolf and Brown Bear accuracy goes to shit at 4,000.
Even if true, you would still save money by shooting Wolf ammo and replacing the barrel. 1) Barrels are cheap. 2) The vast majority of people won't put 4,000 rounds through any rifle, anyway. 3) Most people plinking won't have the ability to even tell when their barrels are starting to open up.
Also, never run combloc steel case ammo through your mini14. Not because of the cases, but because the bullets are bi-metal and they will wear out your barrel faster than normal.
This is great advice. It is crazy how the same gun barrel, shooting plain old cheap federal stuff will last for 10,000 rounds, but with the Wolf and Brown Bear accuracy goes to shit at 4,000.
Even if true, you would still save money by shooting Wolf ammo and replacing the barrel. 1) Barrels are cheap. 2) The vast majority of people won't put 4,000 rounds through any rifle, anyway. 3) Most people plinking won't have the ability to even tell when their barrels are starting to open up.
The advise for Darth was limited to the Mini-14. Ever replace a barrel on one of those? Might as well buy another Mini-14. As I stated in my AR-15 write up, combloc steel case ammo is fine, so long as you know what you are dealing with.
Also, running crap ammo (Accuracy wise) through a mini 14 is just going full retard.
AR15? I just swapped out a barrel on one of my ARs this last weekend; 20 minute job tops.
Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of the free man from the slave.
