IGX

There's substantial talk here about this issue. In your ideal world, what should US policy be on guns? Is the problem dire enough that extreme remedies are required?

I'll go first.

Since the majority of gun deaths are suicides and the most unsettling gun crimes are mass murders, a serious look at the travesty that is mental health care in the US is required. This includes the abuse of psychotropic drugs.

A massive gun related law enforcement effort in gang riddled communities.

I think it's essential that any solutions should be modest and incremental to minimize intrusion into the lives of the vast majority of honest and decent gun owners. After all, 99.999% of guns aren't bothering anybody.

Confiscation, making guns/ammo unaffordable, suing gun manufacturers out of existence, etc. are all 100% unacceptable.

Shit I voted to quick and missed that i could vote for 3 things! Still voted for the only one that actually could do something about this shit without messing with anyone's rights. Protect schools and end "Gun Free Zones'

Oh and who voted for Confiscation? A. Is he an American? B. If so let's have his IP address and see if he stands behind that shit or if he reaches for a gun as he is beaten with an axe handle.

DrDonkeyLove wrote:Since the majority of gun deaths are suicides and the most unsettling gun crimes are mass murders, a serious look at the travesty that is mental health care in the US is required. This includes the abuse of psychotropic drugs.

I don't get what a "serious look" would do as far as policy goes. You're going to ban being crazy and Lexapro, or ban crazy/Lexapro-using people from firearms purchase?

Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.











(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

Grandpa's Spells wrote:You're going to ban being crazy and Lexapro, or ban crazy/Lexapro-using people from firearms purchase?

This type of move is already being contemplated..BROADLY.

johno wrote:A
SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

1st Amendment Nutswinger Here.


FUCKTHAT.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

johno wrote: (I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

1st Amendment Nutswinger Here.


FUCKTHAT.

BD, you're not my target audience. But your objection is duly noted.

It seems pretty freaking easy to get an FFL...

I don't know why anyone would leave an unattended and insecure firearm lying around the house... I think that the trigger/gun locks included w. sales is a start, but I can't imagine people using those consistently.

I don't know where the laws stand, but there should be strict penalties on gun dealers who look the other way on straw purchases...

I don't know why there doesn't seem to be any talk about the supply side of the coin...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... /guns.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/us/gu ... .html?_r=0

C'mon guys. You're so hot to compromise the Second Amendment, why quail at a little nibble at the First Amendment?

If it saves just ONE life....

DARTH wrote:Shit I voted to quick and missed that i could vote for 3 things! Still voted for the only one that actually could do something about this shit without messing with anyone's rights. Protect schools and end "Gun Free Zones'

Oh and who voted for Confiscation? A. Is he an American? B. If so let's have his IP address and see if he stands behind that shit or if he reaches for a gun as he is beaten with an axe handle.

I selected that as one of my three choices just to see how long it would take someone to draw attention to it.

You exceeded my expectations, my friend.

You know full well that I think that people should be allowed to have whatever guns, dogs, cars, drugs, etc that they want and can afford. Possession of *things* ought not to be prohibited nor penalized. *Using* those things in an assholish manner is where legislation should focus.

If we weren't so busy behaving like assholes abroad and bombing the living shit out of every remote outpost that irks us we'd have the funds to address the social issues that lead to assholish behaviour at home.

WildGorillaMan wrote: If we weren't so busy behaving like assholes abroad and bombing the living shit out of every remote outpost that irks us we'd have the funds to address the social issues that lead to assholish behaviour at home.

It's not a matter of funds, my friend.

There isn't an option to ban attention whoring. Which seems to be the primary motivation in a lot of these. By both the shooter and the media. Maybe execute any members of the media who glorify the bastards. Publicly. Kind of kidding, but not.

johno wrote:

WildGorillaMan wrote: If we weren't so busy behaving like assholes abroad and bombing the living shit out of every remote outpost that irks us we'd have the funds to address the social issues that lead to assholish behaviour at home.

It's not a matter of funds, my friend.

Funds+political will?

WildGorillaMan wrote:

johno wrote:

WildGorillaMan wrote: If we weren't so busy behaving like assholes abroad and bombing the living shit out of every remote outpost that irks us we'd have the funds to address the social issues that lead to assholish behaviour at home.

It's not a matter of funds, my friend.

Funds+political will?

IMO, political & moral will. There's an entire ghetto/hillbilly culture that needs condemnation from all sides. No one wants to judge.
Every person needs to work a job and every job deserves respect. The unemployment rate for young men is horrific & crippling, especially for young black men.

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

How about a policy of killing a mass shooter's closest friend?

Are you talking about ending all gun violence or simply the mass shootings (in schools) that seem to garner the most attention?

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

So you support a law to that effect?

johno wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

So you support a law to that effect?

This shouldn't require a law ideally. Simply that journalists act like responsible journalists and not fame hungry paparazzi. we need to raise our own standard of what we find acceptable and stop consuming "news" thats only about glorifying bad behavior and the cult of personality. the media sucks and we've done this to ourselves. And for the record, all the extreme wing political gossip blogs posing as news sources are just as bad as anyone reporting news about the kardashians. Id like to see some honesty out there as well as some actual real true news.

syaigh wrote:

johno wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

So you support a law to that effect?

This shouldn't require a law ideally. Simply that journalists act like responsible journalists and not fame hungry paparazzi. we need to raise our own standard of what we find acceptable and stop consuming "news" thats only about glorifying bad behavior and the cult of personality. the media sucks and we've done this to ourselves. And for the record, all the extreme wing political gossip blogs posing as news sources are just as bad as anyone reporting news about the kardashians. Id like to see some honesty out there as well as some actual real true news.

so shoot the messenger is your solution?

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

DrDonkeyLove wrote:Since the majority of gun deaths are suicides and the most unsettling gun crimes are mass murders, a serious look at the travesty that is mental health care in the US is required. This includes the abuse of psychotropic drugs.

I don't get what a "serious look" would do as far as policy goes. You're going to ban being crazy and Lexapro, or ban crazy/Lexapro-using people from firearms purchase?

No ban or stigmatization at all. We recently had a man kill himself in my city who was on psychotropic meds for >15 years with ZERO follow up visits by the doctor as he became increasingly unstable. When I was on T replacement, I needed a fresh prescription from the doc monthly. Surely a couple visits per year for psychotropic meds prescription refills is reasonable.

These drugs are over prescribed and under supervised. We've seen a change in antibiotics prescriptions subsequent to public and professional education efforts. We need the same thing here.

We also need much more access to quality psychiatric care. Anyone who's dealt with a relative with mental illness knows that employee health plans are woefully insufficient and public options are exponentially worse. Here's an example. I know a family with seriously disturbed kid. When he goes batshit crazy (suicidey stuff) they take him to a local hospital that specializes in mental health. The hospital confines him for a couple of days until he settles down, load him up on meds, and send him home for the cycle to repeat itself. There is only the most minimal effort directed towards counseling him and his family. Should he start pulling triggers, we'll blame guns while mental illness red warning lights have been flashing for years.

60% of the 30,000 gun deaths per year are suicides. Cutting that by 20% - 30% is a big help. Getting ahead of the curve with a couple mass killers could do wonders as well.

I'd also support the requirement that a lawful gun owner who shares a dwelling with a very disturbed person be required to provide extra security to their weapons. A gun safe vs. a trigger lock for example. A simple and inexpensive requirement like that just might have prevented Newtown.

Protobuilder wrote:Are you talking about ending all gun violence or simply the mass shootings (in schools) that seem to garner the most attention?

The first rule of gun violence policy (on either side) is to ignore almost all gun violence and focus on rare events that capture the imaginations of people in middle America who are unlikely to ever be affected by gun violence.

syaigh wrote:

johno wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

So you support a law to that effect?

This shouldn't require a law ideally. Simply that journalists act like responsible journalists and not fame hungry paparazzi. we need to raise our own standard of what we find acceptable and stop consuming "news" thats only about glorifying bad behavior and the cult of personality. the media sucks and we've done this to ourselves. And for the record, all the extreme wing political gossip blogs posing as news sources are just as bad as anyone reporting news about the kardashians. Id like to see some honesty out there as well as some actual real true news.

Holy shit.

Leave it to a woman with a great ass to read my mind and articulate it better than I could.

She-of-the-worldclass-ass is thwarting my Troll. Stop it, please.

*****

Thing One: Whenever there is a mass shooting, the media and lefty politicians immediately and almost exclusively focus on GUNS. Totally blind to other factors.

Thing Two: Anyone advocating infringements on the Second Amendment and rejects some First Amendment restrictions, is a hypocrite. After all, it's for the Children.

Thing Three: Although Australian-style Gun Confiscation will not happen in the US in several lifetimes, IT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO LOWER THE MURDER RATE.
Your solution doesn't work.
http://www.aic.gov.au/dataTools/facts/v ... ntCol.html

johno wrote:

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

johno wrote:Anyone following these mass murders must know that many of these monsters are obsessed with body count and with topping the accomplishments of their predecessors. The Copycat is strong in these ones. They study and learn.

SO...
Let's outlaw the mention of their names, life history, or the total death toll.

(I want to hear all the the 2nd Amendment infringers cry and sputter.)

I rather doubt you will hear much sputtering. There's strong evidence that heavy coverage of mass shootings inspires copycats. There's a way of informing the public that doesn't involve posting the asshole's name, manifesto, and selfies all over for a month.

So you support a law to that effect?

If over-hyped coverage is shown to provoke copycats, of course.