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NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:26 pm
by Turdacious
Pro football is a grown man’s game. I mean that in the sense that, while they are coached and instructed, ultimately everything good and bad carried out on the field is done by grown men. They are free to choose any profession they want to seek out, and they choose to play football in the NFL willingly.

The NFLPA, as the players’ union, would obviously like there to be a unified front on player sentiments regarding the hot-button issues facing the league. In the most recent era, it has been lasting head injuries and the things that cause them, and in the most recent weeks, it has been incentives to injure opponents. Neither create a “safe working environment” by OSHA standards, but players seem to be much more comfortable with their own demise than someone profiting from it.

And that is the problem with the NFL today. There is not a unified front on the head trauma issue because the player pool is in a period of transition. What the league is transitioning to is a mystery, but there is a division between those willing to absorb the implied risk of a pro football career and those who claim to have been (metaphorically) blindsided. Current players bristle at a quick 15-yard flag or a fine for helmet-to-helmet contact. They feel the rules have been changed on them mid-flight. The liked the old way better. The way where the assumed risk was still the same, but the only ones suffering or profiting from a dangerous tackle was the tackler and tacklee themselves. Now, the NFL takes a bite out of the tackler’s paycheck, and the guys in the other jerseys get 15 precious yards. The players who are upset at the recent allegations of bounty systems among teams aren’t mad at the actions, they’re mad at the outcomes. Many are not calling for the game to be played differently. They simply want to absorb the good and the bad of their decision to play pro football like grown men.

The issue with the Saints’ alleged bounty system, or one suggested by Terrell Suggs, for example, is about institutionalizing something that exists invisibly and without compensation anyway. In an odd way, Gregg Williams is a bit of a pro-labor visionary. He wanted his players on the Saints to play physically, ruthless, and on the brink of reckless. Is there a defensive coach in the NFL who does not want the same out of his players? The implication of such guidance is of course, the higher potential for doing harm to your opponent. Perfectly clean tackles can injure players. Borderline legal hits, like what the Saints were dishing out to Brett Favre in his waning hours in the league, will almost certainly lead to injury on a long enough timeline. Without having a pay-for-injury structure in place, any defensive coordinator would look at the film of Williams’ Saints and be happy with the team’s physical effort.

But of course, the problem is in incentivizing the outcome, not the action. A bounty system rewards the outcome, an injured player, that nobody roots for. The backlash against Roger Goodell’s new, more draconian approach to player safety tells the same story. Players who publicly and privately rail against the perceived nanny state of the NFL do so because they want to control their actions and accept whatever outcomes come along for such play. In a way, James Harrison is sort of a libertarian icon.

The NFL, however, isn’t in a position to acquiesce to the free-sack-market whims of the James Harrisons of the league. Whether one caused the other is up for debate, but the wave of lawsuits from former players surrounding health is only going to continue to mount. Any relaxing on the enforcement of rules that connects even vaguely to player safety and head trauma is fuel for future potential legal action from the current roster of players. Many of whom, if you asked them now, want less intervention from the league. “Let things be decided on the field.” They’re grown men, after all.

But soon they will be old men. 15 yards will seem like a bargain if it meant one less health issue in their 40s. The couple grand they may have in the bank thanks to a few games they caused an opponent to miss will feel like blood money. The NFL’s problem is that there are two NFLs. There is a present, and a past. The present demands violence, money, and success. The past is just trying to survive. The present, at least now, isn’t helping.
http://baltimoresportsreport.com/player ... fatal-flaw

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:27 pm
by Turdacious
A friend of mine has an interesting perspective on this-- return to leather helmets. This will stop players from leading with their heads.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:32 pm
by buckethead
Internal damage is exasperated by the use of overly-padded helmets in football, overly-padded gloves in boxing, and overly-padded shoes in running. The force still has to be transmitted somewhere.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:12 pm
by Ryan
I've heard from several sources that the equipment IS the reason for the injuries. Reduce the equipment, reduce the severity and number of injuries.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:18 pm
by Holland Oates
Ryan wrote:I've heard from several sources that the equipment IS the reason for the injuries. Reduce the equipment, reduce the severity and number of injuries.
That's easier said than done. You've got kids growing up playing in the same equipment from first grade up. It'd be kind of hard to change ingrained habits once you drop the level of protection.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:50 pm
by Ryan
Ed Zachary wrote:
Ryan wrote:I've heard from several sources that the equipment IS the reason for the injuries. Reduce the equipment, reduce the severity and number of injuries.
That's easier said than done. You've got kids growing up playing in the same equipment from first grade up. It'd be kind of hard to change ingrained habits once you drop the level of protection.
Not denying that. It would take a major paradigm shift for it to happen.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:04 pm
by powerlifter54
B.S.

The equipment is better but the fact that these athletes have been lifting since 8th grade and many are encouraged, at every level along the way, to be the thug they are in real life when they hit somebody at full speed on the football field. Watch the tacking in the NFL, espescially by defensive backs. They are trying to drill people not bring them down.

It is a freak show played by freaks.

That is why it is so popular.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:35 pm
by johno
Turdacious wrote:
The issue with the Saints’ alleged bounty system, or one suggested by Terrell Suggs, for example, is about institutionalizing something that exists invisibly and without compensation anyway.

^This.

Bounty or no, accumulated hits do serious damage.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:46 pm
by buckethead
powerlifter54 wrote:B.S.

The equipment is better but the fact that these athletes have been lifting since 8th grade and many are encouraged, at every level along the way, to be the thug they are in real life when they hit somebody at full speed on the football field. Watch the tacking in the NFL, espescially by defensive backs. They are trying to drill people not bring them down.

It is a freak show played by freaks.

That is why it is so popular.
Yeah, but could/would they hit so hard if they were padded less? I've played rugby and it takes some serious cojones to try and lay someone out. You come off as bad as them, often.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:02 pm
by jgmack
Those football playing thugs should be required to wear the same gear that rugby playes do. Rugby of course being a real sport.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:27 am
by Protobuilder
The leather helmet idea, while never going to happen, could solve most of the problems inside of a few years.

Bounty or not, things are the way they are for a reason. I have a friend who played, mostly on special teams, in the NFL for a few years and he said that one video clip of you not running at top speed and drilling somebody on a kickoff could result in you getting your walking papers that same day - he also said that there wasn't a person in the room that wasn't taking pills to get out of bed in the morning.

The only dishonest part of the conversation is that people are pretending that head injuries aren't inevitable and that things can be changed by moving kickoffs up or increasing penalties.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:44 am
by bigpeach
Problem solved.

Image

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:47 am
by Holland Oates
That makes perfect sense.

The negroes can fix anything.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:02 am
by The Ginger Beard Man
Ryan wrote:I've heard from several sources that the equipment IS the reason for the injuries. Reduce the equipment, reduce the severity and number of injuries.
Back when I played rugby at Hofstra I remember a football player talking about how the equipment is used as weapons. It makes sense that by cutting back on this you will take some of the brutality out of the game.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:34 am
by Protobuilder
They hired a proper ref for flag football?

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:48 pm
by powerlifter54
BucketHead wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:B.S.

The equipment is better but the fact that these athletes have been lifting since 8th grade and many are encouraged, at every level along the way, to be the thug they are in real life when they hit somebody at full speed on the football field. Watch the tacking in the NFL, espescially by defensive backs. They are trying to drill people not bring them down.

It is a freak show played by freaks.

That is why it is so popular.
Yeah, but could/would they hit so hard if they were padded less? I've played rugby and it takes some serious cojones to try and lay someone out. You come off as bad as them, often.

Let them wear all the gear they currently wear except no helmet or the leather one. Rugby teaches to tackle with shoulders and with head behind the runner as you wrap...wish i had learned that way first. Right now NFL is kinetic energy tacking with little to no arm wrap and head as battering ram.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:51 pm
by bigpeach
While you see some amazing hits in football these days, you see a whole lot of guys going for the huge hit and bouncing right off the ball carrier too.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:22 pm
by clutch
Return to the glory days of the Coliseum. Mount blades and spikes on top of the helmets. As fans, we should demand that we get our money's worth of blood and gore.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:34 pm
by Gin Master
What Jack said. Players are freakishly biggerstrongerfaster, but the physiology of the head and brain have remained the same. Helmets are basically a padded weapon.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:39 am
by Protobuilder

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:34 am
by Protobuilder
This guy is gone from the league forever.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77780 ... ers-speech

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:51 am
by Fat Cat
BobW wrote:Return to the glory days of the Coliseum. Mount blades and spikes on top of the helmets. As fans, we should demand that we get our money's worth of blood and gore.
Am I the only nerd who played this in the 80s?

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Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:31 am
by milosz
Equipment is one part, but size and athleticism is another. Relative to today's pro player in size and strength, the average pro in 1953 was a child.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:12 am
by Protobuilder
milosz wrote:Equipment is one part, but size and athleticism is another. Relative to today's pro player in size and strength, the average pro in 1953 was a child.
Shhh, it's easier to talk about head injuries than drug testing.

Re: NFL, bounties, and head injuries

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:54 am
by Thatcher II
This is a huge issue in rugby too. The sizes have gone from 14 stone an 6' being seen as gigantic to that now being small for some positions in high school. The international pack weight averages are way over 100kg. They are doing rush defence now with "shooters" who break the defensive line to get intercepts and basically try to kill people. I've been at high level games where someone who is obviously concussed is given a rub if a sponge and allowed to play on. Many then can't remember the rest of the game and when they retire it's blinding headaches and depression. Not sure how to fix this.