IGX

This is awesome.
http://www.dailybulletin.com/california ... her-tenure

awyers for seven California schoolchildren are suing the state in an attempt to overturn five laws that they say violate their constitutional right to a fair education because they protect bad teachers.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in Los Angeles County Superior Court, is the most sweeping challenge to date of teacher tenure, dismissal procedures and seniority-based layoffs — three longtime tenets of the teaching profession that have fallen under increasingly sharp criticism in recent years but are fiercely protected by unions.

The suit called the set of laws a "statutory scheme" that keeps ineffective teachers in classrooms, particularly in low-income schools.

I've got a couple of friends who are teachers that kind of hate the teachers unions. They're young, motivated and give a shit etc, and with the budget cuts, they don't know if they'll have a job next year while older teachers who checked out long ago are largely insulated.

baffled wrote:I've got a couple of friends who are teachers that kind of hate the teachers unions. They're young, motivated and give a shit etc, and with the budget cuts, they don't know if they'll have a job next year while older teachers who checked out long ago are largely insulated.

Unions inevitably will fight this as hard as they can but such things are the best way to drive up teacher salaries.

There was some union lady talking about how insulted she was by this. It'll be a dogfight.

It will really be an interesting fight. I thought that there would have been more talk of this in the heyday of "No Child Left Behind" when 'accountability' was THE buzzword in educational policy and reform.

Back then we were only sort of broke. California is in such a shitty spot, and taxes are already so high that we are in for a bumpy ride that'll make wisconsin's recent troubles look tame.

baffled wrote:Back then we were only sort of broke. California is in such a shitty spot, and taxes are already so high that we are in for a bumpy ride that'll make wisconsin's recent troubles look tame.

Hey, Mr. Friend, you need help, we help you, no problem. OK?

We have plenty of those. And it seems like a shit load of Filipinos the last couple of years. We can always blame our shit on the Filipinos. Primarily because they're disgusting, annoying and mostly retarded.

baffled wrote:We have plenty of those. And it seems like a shit load of Filipinos the last couple of years. We can always blame our shit on the Filipinos. Primarily because they're disgusting, annoying and mostly retarded.

and poor

Bow to Mao and the Chinese will bail you out.

There is no group in the U.S. that is more solidly organized against the welfare of children than the teachers unions. They are revolting swine, but politicians kiss their asses because voters are so stupid that they believe an endorsement from the teacher's union means you support better schools.

Pinky wrote:There is no group in the U.S. that is more solidly organized against the welfare of children than the teachers unions. They are revolting swine, but politicians kiss their asses because voters are so stupid that they believe an endorsement from the teacher's union means you support better schools.

/thread.

baffled wrote:
I've got a couple of friends who are teachers that kind of hate the teachers unions. They're young, motivated and give a shit etc, and with the budget cuts, they don't know if they'll have a job next year while older teachers who checked out long ago are largely insulated.

I imagine their opinions will change once they've been teaching a while.

Maybe they should be upset with the folks that cut the budgets. I find it ironic the one's cutting the budgets are also the one's bitching about the state of schools/students.

Have any of you genius's actually taught a class? ever?

So it's O.K. to replace someone with college grad with no experience at half the pay? I hope none of your bosses get that idea. No one thinks it can happen to them until it does.

I find union bashing hilarious. Without unions you'd be shopping at the company store most likely on credit.

Education vouchers = Parent Power.

Is there a CA state constitutional right to education? : STRIKE THAT...apparently there is.

Will be an interesting case for sure.

Stillwater wrote:

baffled wrote:
I've got a couple of friends who are teachers that kind of hate the teachers unions. They're young, motivated and give a shit etc, and with the budget cuts, they don't know if they'll have a job next year while older teachers who checked out long ago are largely insulated.

I imagine their opinions will change once they've been teaching a while.

Maybe they should be upset with the folks that cut the budgets. I find it ironic the one's cutting the budgets are also the one's bitching about the state of schools/students.

Have any of you genius's actually taught a class? ever?

So it's O.K. to replace someone with college grad with no experience at half the pay? I hope none of your bosses get that idea. No one thinks it can happen to them until it does.

I find union bashing hilarious. Without unions you'd be shopping at the company store most likely on credit.

Public sector and private sector unions are different animals. There was a legitimate need for private sector unions-- there's never been such a need for public sector ones.

johno wrote:Education vouchers = Parent Power.

Vouchers are a joke. These "charter" schools are in it for the money.

Most of them ship the kids back to there home schools around testing time. Or at least the one's they think will drag the scores down.

Parents don't want to admit to themselves that their little snowflake is all that special.

How much time do they spend with their kids on homework every night?

Parents are just as responsible for their children's education as the schools.

You want school districts to save money?

Take a hard look at the administration. Ridiculous salaries and redundancies everywhere.

I recently heard of one district that hired a full time PR person. What the hell does a school district need a PR person for?

Stillwater wrote:

johno wrote:Education vouchers = Parent Power.

Vouchers are a joke. These "charter" schools are in it for the money.

Most of them ship the kids back to there home schools around testing time. Or at least the one's they think will drag the scores down.

Parents don't want to admit to themselves that their little snowflake is all that special.

How much time do they spend with their kids on homework every night?

Parents are just as responsible for their children's education as the schools.

NYC's results suggest differently.

Stillwater wrote:Have any of you genius's actually taught a class? ever?

I teach undergrads and MBA students. Amazingly, I manage to do a decent job of it despite having never taken any education classes. Somehow I stumble my way through lectures relying only on my knowledge of the subject (and good looks).

Also I can be fired, for at least a few more years. The tenure system in universities needs reform, but the tenure system at lower levels is completely pointless and serves only to allow incompetent teachers to steal from the taxpayers and the children they are supposed to teach. No pay-for-performance scheme or increase in funding will improve education as long as no teacher can be fired.

So it's O.K. to replace someone with college grad with no experience at half the pay?

As long as they didn't graduate with an "education" degree. Next to firing shitty teachers, the best thing we could do to improve education in this country is abolish the certificates of grade inflation known as education degrees.

Stillwater wrote:You want school districts to save money?

Take a hard look at the administration. Ridiculous salaries and redundancies everywhere.

I recently heard of one district that hired a full time PR person. What the hell does a school district need a PR person for?

the more bloated and corrupt the org, the more it needs a PR person. this transcends industry, private or public.

Stillwater wrote:You want school districts to save money?

Take a hard look at the administration. Ridiculous salaries and redundancies everywhere.

I recently heard of one district that hired a full time PR person. What the hell does a school district need a PR person for?

Agreed. Those people should also be fired, and their salaries used to hire math and science teachers with degrees that indicate some knowledge of math and science.

Pinky wrote:

Stillwater wrote:You want school districts to save money?

Take a hard look at the administration. Ridiculous salaries and redundancies everywhere.

I recently heard of one district that hired a full time PR person. What the hell does a school district need a PR person for?

Agreed. Those people should also be fired, and their salaries used to hire math and science teachers with degrees that indicate some knowledge of math and science.

rather...they should hire math and science teachers who have shown an aptitude for teaching which is a radically different crowd.

Turdacious wrote:

Stillwater wrote:

johno wrote:Education vouchers = Parent Power.

Vouchers are a joke. These "charter" schools are in it for the money.

Most of them ship the kids back to there home schools around testing time. Or at least the one's they think will drag the scores down.

Parents don't want to admit to themselves that their little snowflake is all that special.

How much time do they spend with their kids on homework every night?

Parents are just as responsible for their children's education as the schools.

NYC's results suggest differently.

My impression of the evidence on charter schools suggests that it depends on the how the charter school system is run. Some are an improvement, but some are not.

But charter schools are a secondary issue. The most important thing is the ability to fire people.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

Pinky wrote:

Stillwater wrote:You want school districts to save money?

Take a hard look at the administration. Ridiculous salaries and redundancies everywhere.

I recently heard of one district that hired a full time PR person. What the hell does a school district need a PR person for?

Agreed. Those people should also be fired, and their salaries used to hire math and science teachers with degrees that indicate some knowledge of math and science.

rather...they should hire math and science teachers who have shown an aptitude for teaching which is a radically different crowd.

No one can demonstrate an aptitude for teaching before they actually teach. Find people who know the subject and put them in the classroom. If they don't figure things out quickly, fire them.

i would agree with you HOWEVER...there are a lot of institutions that train teachers....part of their demonstrating their educations involves teaching. like good schools for engineering, there are good teaching schools and you get what you pay for. I get a little weary of the canard that we need to hire smart math and science students to teach when many of them lack the basic skills to interact with students.

it is a lot harder to make a teacher than a mathematician.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:i would agree with you HOWEVER...there are a lot of institutions that train teachers. like good schools for engineering, there are good teaching schools and you get what you pay for. I get a little weary of the canard that we need to hire smart math and science students to teach when many of them lack the basic skills to interact with students.

it is a lot harder to make a teacher than a mathematician.

I disagree there-- there are different skill sets required. Someone who does serious math for a living is using much more advanced math than that's is taught in K-12.