IGX

Depression may no more than the firings of damaged neurons. We should first fix the neurons before we go to other methods to heal depression.

Let me see if I can convince you of this.

Cutting straight to the chase, oxidative and nitrosative stress play a role in depression. Immune system activation and inflammation contribute to depressive symptoms, including anxiety, fatigue, malaise and cognitive impairment.

Several major findings show that depression is is an inflammatory disorder

Inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-1, IL-6, tumor necrosis factor ( TNF alpha) and interferon (IFN gamma) are consistently increased in the blood or brain of depressives.
Inflammatory pathways that have recently been discovered in depression include
Activation of IDO, a tryptophan depleter
Depleted plasma tryptophan
Increased tryptophan metabolism byproducts that promote depression
Bacterial infections that activate immune cell produced inflammatory cytokines
Oxidative and nitrosative stress
Decreased synthesis of 5-HT.


The elements of the inflammatory cascade involved in depression seem to be:

Oxidative and nitrosative stress (O&NS) that causes damage to the brain membrane omega-3 fatty acids, proteins, DNA, mitochondria, and autoimmune responses.
Decreased levels of omega-3 fatty acids and antioxidants, such as coenzyme Q 10, glutathione peroxidase or zinc, increase inflammatory potential and alter the expression of receptors in the brain.


All these factors lead to neurodegeneration, neuronal apoptosis, lowered neurogenesis and neural plasticity. In short, brain neurons degenerate, die, fewer are regenerated, and the surviving neurons lack energy. The loss of neuroplasticity means you cannot learn new things because you lack the ability to form new networks in the brain.



An underlying cause of the loss of brain neurons suffered in long-term depression is the low level of brain growth factor (BDNF) that depressives show in their blood. The lack of activity in depressives is due to their mood and the low energy level of their brain cells because they lack mitochondrial density and activity. Thus, depressives are not able to engage in the vigorous activities that strongly elevate BDNF.

BDNF is lower in bipolar depression than unipolar depression and is associated with high recurrence and treatment resistance. Neurotics show low BDNF.

These factors suggest that depression is the consequence of a complex interplay between immune system action and inflammation. Depression, anxiety, neurosis, and other maladies may not be consequences of poor thought patterns or stress so much as they are brain states caused by inflammatory processes. In other words, the thoughts of depressives are damaged because their brains are damaged.

These are physiological states not than mental states. Depressive thoughts are the consequence of the loss of brain neurons and defective brain metabolism that are engendered by inflammation

I am suggesting that depression should not be seen as a brain thinking sick thoughts, but of a sick brain thinking depressive thoughts. A depressive brain is a consequences of poor brain metabolism and physiology. These are directly treatable through diet, antioxidant supplements, and activity. Antidepressants that successfully treat depression elevate antioxidant defenses in the brain. Thus, they work by reducing oxidative and inflammatory stress in the brain, as my theory predicts.

TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.

true...

they should drink it.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

TomFurman wrote:Getting women,.. depressed ones at that,.. to eat more protein,.. is like herding cats.

true...

they should drink it.

Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.

Fat Cat wrote:

Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.

shut you mouf you talk about whiskey that way

Just like any Paleo wonk will tell you with utter certitude that those 30 minutes of aerobic exercise will only work if they're done Tabata-style, mother fucker

milosz wrote:to be fair to the caveman posers, Sisson/etc. seem pretty big on light aerobic exercise, walking, etc..

Dan Martin wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:

Dan Martin wrote:What is a real viscious circle is the use of distilled spirits in dealing with injury related pain. Booze is a inflammatory too, so you're just doubling down when you have a pop to ease your pain.

shut you mouf you talk about whiskey that way

Whiskey is the worst. Believe me when I say I found that out the hard way.

Sua Sponte wrote:

milosz wrote:to be fair to the caveman posers, Sisson/etc. seem pretty big on light aerobic exercise, walking, etc..

True, fair enough. I'm guilty of putting Crossfit into the same camp as Paleo, even though x-fitters claim they are Paleotologists, too.

Still, an issue with Sisson is his weekly sprint workouts. Let's leave aside for the moment that there aren't any studies showing long term health benefits of weekly sprinting-but lots to show that people under other stresses in life can burn out quite fast on them. (If eating is under reported the frequency, length and intensity of these dick-in-the-dirt workouts are just as likely over reported-I'll stop short of saying lying). How is it, exactly, that these Paleo folk came to the conclusion that weekly or any other pattern of sprinting mimics Paleo life? Just how many wild animals can people out run? Even including the mythical superhuman Paleo man. If you are in a weekly sprint-for-life exercise with wild animals the probability of you living to see anything beyond week 2 is, let's say, weak. I was also entirely unaware that wild animals chased people in 20 to 30 second bursts, broken by 10 to 30 second rest periods (very sportsmanlike of those beasts, I dare say). And why, again exactly, based upon this science, would this be long term healthy for people to do?

If we believe another of those Paleo myths, that humans are 100% genetically unchanged in the last 100,000 years, and are hence just as intelligent then as now, why didn't they pick up on the idea of, you know, an ambush? No need to get into get into pissing contests with bears and all that. No fair invoking education as a factor as that brings epigenetics into play and we're ignoring that, too.

How did Sisson decide upon his body weight regime? And the number of correct repetitions? Was that optimal to help Paleo man drag full-sized dead animals (it's not like people hunted in groups or anything, or had tools to cut up kills to be be carried back in pieces)? Clearly they never needed these other things people need in these unenlightened times to achieve Olympic level performance. I've carried heavy stuff on my back over rough terrain for many miles-I apparently was always stupid enough to try and keep it as easy as possible by not doing lots of ass to the grass squats with it. Paleo man must have known better and availed himself of the opportunity to train like a, well, Paleo man, when slinging a kill on his back and bringing it home to mama. Who was incredibly hot, of course, cause that babe was Paleo too, don't you know.